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Frage:
Potz Baßa Manelka: update from 2014-04-10 » antworten
von atemp (US), Last modified: 2014-06-11, 05:51  like dislike  Spam?  
Stirring the embers of the past topic of Fritz Stahlbaum's oath Potz Baßa Manelka!, I just now took the suggestion by Anonym that the latter part might be a Prussian corruption of the HU basszam a lelkét!, and plugged it into a machine translator.

Prefixing the surprising output (which has nothing to with a Turkish Pascha or sb. named Manelka) with ddr's suggestion that Potz has sth. to do with God, the final result is very rude indeed--hardly what one would expect a 10-year old middle-class Berliner kid of 1816 to utter in polite company:

God fuck your soul!

But it does sound like something a Hussar cavalryman might yell while spurring his steed into battle.

Comments?
Chat:     
Potz = Gott  #758040
von atemp (US), Last modified: 2014-06-11, 05:46  like dislike  Spam?  
From http://woerterbuchnetz.de: POTZ, interj.

F. Müller 1, 327. substantivisch: den frommen theologen waren die soldatenflüche ein besonderer greuel; so oft ein soldatenmund sich öffnete, flogen die 'potz' und 'pieu' — rücksichtsvolle entstellungen des göttlichen namens — unaufhaltsam heraus. Freytag bilder (1867)

F. Müller 1, 327. noun: to pious theologians, the soldiers' curses were especially abominable; every time a soldier's mouth opened, 'potz' and 'pieu' - considerable distortions of the divine name [i.e. God] - inexorably flew out. Freytag bilder (1867).

okay, so Potz seems pretty firm. Have x-posted to HU forum on the rest; will advise.

BTW the ref for this besides woerterbuchnetz is: Freytag, Gustav: Bilder aus der deutschen Vergangenheit , 13th ed., vol. 3.Leipzig: S. Hirzel, 1882. Print. ref pp88-89.
Chat:     
Hattest du schon mal gefragt  #758049
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-06-11, 04:32  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
Chat:     
Lisa4dict yes, but it was never answered till now.  #758054
von atemp (US), 2014-06-11, 05:49  like dislike  Spam?  
Chat:     
Noch ein paar Anregungen.  #758084
von Dracs (DE), 2014-06-11, 10:46  like dislike  Spam?  
http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/f%C3%BCrbass
http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/zwiebelfisch/zwiebelfisch-abc-baff-bas...
http://www.dwds.de/?qu=potz
http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/potz
"frühneuhochdeutsch botz, mittelhochdeutsch pocks, entstellt aus »Gottes« (in bestimmten Fügungen, die sich auf das Leiden Jesu Christi beziehen)"
Chat:     
A 10-year old middle-class Berliner kid of 1816 may jolly well have uttered these bowdlerized (!!!) words without knowing what they really mean  #758130
von Proteus-, 2014-06-11, 13:16  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.50...
Chat:     
Some musings.  #758149
von MichaelK (US), 2014-06-11, 14:23  like dislike  Spam?  
Agree completely. In fact, good old E.T.A. may not have known the meaning either.

I think following the path leading to Heinrich von Kleist (as suggested by Dracs and Proteus in the previous thread about this) would be good. Kleist's famous 1810 anecdote about a Prussian soldier near Jena cursing while charging some Frenchmen would certainly have been known to E.T.A. At Jena, the Prussians were decisively defeated by the French, so even that ties into the Nutcracker story. For good measure, google Ewald von Kleist and read about his connections to Hungary and the Hungarian language.
Chat:     
Ja, ja, aber…  #758222
von atemp (US), 2014-06-11, 20:13  like dislike  Spam?  
… said boy would not have knowingly uttered such gibberish, had he even an inkling of its real meaning, an emphasis I failed to make earlier.

As to whether Hoffmann for certain knew the oath's meaning: either he didn't and was just passing it along, or he did and took some perverse pleasure in making Fritz into an unwitting potty-mouth before his family.
Chat:     
A 10-year old middle-class Berlin kid is most unlikely to have known the intrinsic meaning because Hungarian tended to be beyond his ken  #758237
von Proteus-, 2014-06-11, 23:19  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.50...
It may have been a different story in Vienna. But Prussia and Hungary were worlds apart.
Chat:     
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2014-06-12, 01:57  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758257
I was a 10-year old kid in Berlin in 1952. My friends and I used mit Karacho all the time. We had no idea and, perhaps more to the point, didn't care where that word came from (carajo > penis).
Chat:     
Kontext, meine Liebchen  #758260
von atemp (US), Last modified: 2014-06-12, 03:11  like dislike  Spam?  
Fritz utters the oath at a family gathering in the parlor at Christmastime. Judging by the lack of reaction, Hoffmann implies that neither Fritz nor the others had any notion of what it meant.

Further, neither Hoffmann nor his editors would have presented/published Nußknacker as a harmless Kinder-Mährchen if many among its target readership were likely to have blowout on reading Potz etc. and understanding God F etc
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-12, 16:13  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.125....
 #758350
Chat:     
Not trying to be rude, aber... na und?  #758372
von atemp (US), Last modified: 2014-06-12, 20:17  like dislike  Spam?  
Sorry, but just because Heinrich von Kleist made a claim doesn't mean it's so. Did he disclose his linguistic scholarship in tracking down the etymological origins of Bassa Manelka or Bassa Teremtetem? Or cite other scholars who did so? Looks like a big nope, twice.

Kleist was "scantily educated" (see Wiki), entered the military at 15, served 7 years, then retired to the literary trade where he hung out with poets and philosophers. Not to say he couldn't have picked up some formal linguistic education thereafter--it's just that evidence that he dabbled in actual scholarship is not forthcoming.

Kleist's Bassa=Pascha claim looks like an unsupported guess based on superficial word resemblance and his own folk-etymology; or, maybe he had asked sb. else for their opinion on the matter. As an aside, the only...
» vollständigen Text anzeigen
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-12, 20:06  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.125....
 #758380
I'm sure you're right. I just thought a different source might have been helpful. The Bassa Manelka text is from a website that supplies resources to teachers at German schools. I was merely trying to point out that the expression is used in an innocent context; whether this is justified I don't know.
Chat:     
Last of Potz, Bassa usw.  #758497
von atemp (US), 2014-06-13, 18:10  like dislike  Spam?  
Beating this dead horse a last little bit, there seems to be some general agreement in the HU<>EN forum on the meanings or at least subtexts of those Prussian Hussars' oaths.

Bassa Teremtetem is reminiscent of the still-used HU oath Azt a teremtettét! which more or less means God damn it!, the initial Bassza suggesting sth. like God f*** it!

In (Potz) Bassa Manelka the general syllabic parallels seem hypothetically (to my amateur linguist's eye) to follow a stepwise degeneration from a DE-HU hybrid phrase to DE gibberish:

1. Prototype:
 Potz basszam a lelkét

2. Concatenate or slur "...m a l..." into "mal..." and repartition, tighten "ssz"-->ß ligature:
 Potz baßa malelkét

3. "lelk" is not common in DE, but "nelk" is seen, e.g. Nelke = Carnation; make easier to pronounce in DE:
 Potz bassa manelka

Thanks all for the lively debate and helpful contributions!
Frage:
Final Order of Forfeiture (Zivilverfahren) » antworten
von aer (US), 2014-06-10, 22:38  like dislike  Spam?  
Gibt es dafür in der deutschen Rechtssprache einen festen Ausdruck wie etwa 'Endgültiger Verwirkungsbeschluss' ?

Für jeden Vorschlag bin ich dankbar!
Antwort: 
mehr Kontext bitte  #758033
von alexander490 (AT), 2014-06-10, 23:10  like dislike  Spam?  
geht es darum, dass ein Sachverhalt verjährt ist, oder einfach, dass er rechtskräftig ist?

ein rechtskräftiges Urteil (also keine Berufung mehr möglich) wäre nämlich ziemlich final^^
Antwort: 
Ist das US-Prozessrecht? Konnte in Black's nichts finden. Meines Wissens gibt es kein spezielles Rechtsinstitut dieser Art nach deutschem Recht.  #758063
anonymous, 2014-06-11, 08:53  like dislike  Spam?  213.61.158...
Mir käme nach deutschem Recht nur eine Feststellungsklage (im Gegensatz zur Leistungs- oder Gestaltungsklage in den Sinn) mit einem ergehenden Feststellungsurteil.
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-11, 10:55  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.117...
 #758086
Ich habe das nur in dem Zusammenhang "criminal forfeiture" gefunden..... Wie alexander sagte, wir brauchen den näheren Zusammenhang.
Antwort: 
civil forfeiture of assets used illegaly  #758097
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-06-11, 11:52  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
Wikipedia(EN): Asset_forfeiture
Wikipedia(EN): In_rem_jurisdiction

Das geht wahrscheinlich nur mit einer Beschreibung in Klammern.  Die Rechtslage in D ist sehr verschieden von der in den USA.  Auch wenn du entsprechendes Vokabular findest, wird der Leser nicht das Verständnis haben est entsprechend der US Rechtslage zu interpretieren.
Antwort: 
civil forfeiture - ? forfeiture order > Einziehungsbeschluss   #758123
von Proteus-, 2014-06-11, 13:00  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.50...
Antwort: 
Proteus  #758174
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-06-11, 15:38  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
Yes, your English pages show civil forfeiture.  
But I couldn't find anything relevant in your German pages.
An Einziehungsbeschluss is sth, to do with stock in a company AFAIK.  Not what is going on in English here.
http://www.meyer-koering.de/de/meldungen/olg-saarbruecken-keine-nic...
Frage:
help, I need somebody; Help; I just need somebody; » antworten
von patrick900 (UN), 2014-06-10, 17:41  like dislike  Spam?  
hallo, könnt ihr mir kurz weiterhelfen?
hab morgen ein gespräch mit einem sehr strengen prof.
ich hab mir ein paar phrasen überlegt die ich sagen werde müssen

1. Ich habe mir das markiert um die wichtigsten Punkte festzustellen. (Grafik liegt vor mir)
I tried to cover that to see the important points.

2. Ja genau, ich mache diesen Kurs zum zweiten mal.
Yes Sir, I am doing this course for the second time.

3. Ich habe auch versucht den 2ten part, die beschreibungen zu machen.
I also tried to to the second part, the describtion phase.

4. Seien Sie nicht zu streng, ich bin noch in der lernphase.
Dont be do strenth do me, I am just learing.

5. Ich bin bisschen nervös, ich habe in 2 Stunden eine Vorstellungsgespräch bei der Post
I am nervous, because I have a meeting for a job in two hours.

6. Ich habe es in einer alten Prüfung gefunden, perfect zum vorbereiten dachte ich!!
I found it in old exam and I thought this would be a good exercise.

7. Um die Wirtschaft anzukurbeln.
to boost the economy.

8. Gehört hier ein minus?
Maybe there should be a minus?

9. Sorry, ich hatte probleme mit meinem drucker.
Sorry, I had a problem with my printer.
Chat:     
Deutsch oder englisch?  #758007
von Dracs (DE), 2014-06-10, 17:49  like dislike  Spam?  
Beides birgt Verbesserungspotenzial ...
Antwort: 
von patrick90000, 2014-06-10, 17:53  like dislike  Spam?  178.191.170....
 #758008
english please
Antwort: 
suggestions  #758009
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-06-10, 17:56  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
1. Ich habe mir das markiert um die wichtigsten Punkte festzustellen. (Grafik liegt vor mir)
I highlighted that to find/illustrate the most important points.

2. Ja genau, ich mache diesen Kurs zum zweiten mal.
Yes, that's right, I am taking this course for the second time. / I am doing this course over. / this is the second time I'm taking this course.

3. Ich habe auch versucht den 2ten part, die beschreibungen zu machen.
I also tried to do the second part, which is the describtion phase.  "describtion phase??"

4. Seien Sie nicht zu streng, ich bin noch in der lernphase.
Dont be too hard on me, I am just learing.  (You'd better leave that one out if you're talking to your professor.)
Please go easy on me I'm still tying to absorb the material.

5. Ich bin bisschen nervös, ich habe in 2 Stunden...
» vollständigen Text anzeigen
Antwort: 
typo  #758022
von siw (DE), 2014-06-10, 19:29  like dislike  Spam?  
description  (mit p nicht b)
Chat:     
even with a p it doesn't ring any bells  #758050
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-06-11, 04:35  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
(Sorry I copied and pasted without checking the spelling.)
Do you mean the "outline phase" ?  We do have that in university assignments.
Frage:
Multiplikatoren der Kommunikationsbranche » antworten
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 16:40  like dislike  Spam?  
I think this is literally "disseminators of the communications industry", does anyone have a better suggestion than that? It's not a common phrase in English.
Antwort: 
outreachers  #757993
von 3mmm (DE), 2014-06-10, 16:48  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
even more literal maybe?  #757998
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-06-10, 17:33  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
business multipliers in the communications industry
Google
... or do they mean the people in media ??
Antwort: 
von Wenz (DE), 2014-06-10, 17:40  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758000
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 17:41  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758002
I'm not 100% clear what industry they mean. I think they mean those people who spread the message, Maybe "influencers" would be a good word. I reckon it's this definition from Duden: (bildungssprachlich) Person, Einrichtung, die Wissen oder Information weitergibt und zu deren Verbreitung, Vervielfältigung beiträgt
http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Multiplikator
These are one of the groups targeted by their Marketing- und Kommunikationskonzept. Perhaps "influencers in the communication industry" would be good here (they may well mean "the media" - do you reckon they do?)
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2014-06-10, 17:45  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758004
Thanks, Wenz. "Contacts" might work. I'm not convinced English has a word that means precisely this. Influencer is a word I know from Facebook: http://www.brandwatch.com/2013/08/finding-influencers-on-facebook-t... (I'm occasionally an influencer on that, in that I sometimes persuade my Facebook friends to see certain films or read certain books). Do you think that might work?
Antwort: 
windfall: influencer oder value-added influencers ... siehe Quelle   #758010
von Wenz (DE), 2014-06-10, 18:03  like dislike  Spam?  
Wikipedia(EN): Influencer_marketing
http://www.linkedin.com/company/multiplikator-pr
Aber ich weiß es nicht, es kommt auf deinen Text an.
Antwort: 
? disseminators in the media and communication sector  #758014
von Proteus-, 2014-06-10, 18:38  like dislike  Spam?  194.96.45....
Antwort: 
Recte: ... communicationS sector  #758015
von Proteus-, 2014-06-10, 18:40  like dislike  Spam?  194.96.45....
Antwort: 
von Iriemon, 2014-06-10, 19:13  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.117...
 #758020
Multiplikatoren are, in my understanding, not just dessiminators.... they also have a strengthening, enhancing effect....

see also In der Kommunikationstheorie eine Person oder auch ein Medium, die bzw. das in besonders starkem Maße Nachrichten und Information verbreitet. Es handelt sich um Personen oder Organisationen, denen eine Schlüsselstellung bei der Verbreitung von Meinungen, Kenntnissen, Einstellungen, Moden usw. zukommt und die in dieser Hinsicht den Meinungsführer
Gefunden auf http://www.enzyklo.de/lokal/40044
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 20:24  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758024
Oh dear, that does all sound complicated. I understand why you'd call what Iriemon's talking about multipliers, but I don't think it would be understood as having that meaning in English. Perhaps it is best to stick with "disseminators" after all.
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-10, 22:11  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.117...
 #758029
well, disseminators is too simplistic but I'm afraid I don't know the English term for "Multiplikatoren".....
Antwort: 
propagators ???  #758035
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-06-10, 23:57  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
Google

No exact match, I think, but maybe close enough.
Antwort: 
Thanks, everyone  #758065
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-11, 09:07  like dislike  Spam?  
4;Iriemon, I am not convinced we have a word for this. I can see why we should, but I'm not in a position to invent one. It'll have to be a marketing executive!
4;Lisa, yes, I like "propagators", that sounds as closer to what Iriemon describes than anything I can come up with.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-11, 09:42  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758068
I decided to go with "propagators of information in the communications industry" in the end.
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-11, 10:42  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.117...
 #758083
probably too late now. Propagators doesn't google well, but it could be something like "facilitators", although this may not be the same thing.
https://uk.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A9mSs3ZAFphTjmEAbpNLBQx.;_y...
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-11, 10:50  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758085
4;Iriemon, "facilitators" wouldn't work in this context (and it is too late for my text unless the proofreader finds this thread!). I'm not too bothered that it doesn't Google well, as I honestly don't think this concept exists in English (I can see why it should, but then I can also see why newly coined words in English should exist in German when they don't). Maybe one day we'll be able to say "multipliers" for this meaning of Multiplikatoren, but IMHO we can't yet.
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-11, 10:59  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.117...
 #758087
yes, you're right :-) Would be interesting to see whether it gets and changed and into what...
Frage:
"privacy"-Einstellung bei Facebook » antworten
von romy (CZ/GB), 2014-06-10, 15:52  like dislike  Spam?  
Weiß vielleicht jemand, wie man in diesem Kontext "privacy" übersetzt? Es geht noch immer um Wettbewerbsbedingungen. Nach der Auswahl des Gewinners kann dieser seinen Preis verlieren, "if the potential winner’s Account “privacy” is set so that the potential winner’s updates/responses may not be visible in Sponsor".
Ich rate mal: wenn die Einstellung der "Privatsphäre" im Facebook-Konto des Gewinners blah blah blah...?
Antwort: 
in Facebook gibt es jedenfalls "Privatsphäre Einstellungen" - dort kann man die Sichtbarkeit seiner Beiträge einstellen  #757996
von alexander490 (AT), 2014-06-10, 17:08  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
Danke!  #758006
von romy (CZ/GB), 2014-06-10, 17:47  like dislike  Spam?  
Frage:
medizinisches Fachpersonal - gehe ich richtig in der Annahme, dass dies nicht nur auf Ärzte bezieht, sondern auch auf Pfleger, Arzthelfer etc.? Danke! » antworten
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 15:23  like dislike  Spam?  213.61.158...
Antwort: 
Korrekt  #757976
von romy (CZ/GB), 2014-06-10, 15:34  like dislike  Spam?  
Auch Röntgenassistenten, Hebammen, Psychotherapeuten und neuerdings auch Chiropraktiker, Ostheopathen usw. Dagegen gehören Naturheilpraktiker und Wellnessberater noch nicht dazu. Ernährungsexperten bilden je nach Ausbildungsart in etwa die Trennlinie.
Frage:
honest mistake » antworten
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 13:52  like dislike  Spam?  
How do I say "it was an honest mistake" in German?
Chat:     
context? are you apologizing? was it an intentional mistake?  #757960
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 14:09  like dislike  Spam?  194.166.183....
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 14:16  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757961
4;anon, yes, this is a form of apology. http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhatDoesHonestMistakeMean/vcjb...
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080321010517AAfOh9C
Possibly there is no German equivalent to this.
Antwort: 
It's the other anonym.. piping up now (;  #757962
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 14:22  like dislike  Spam?  213.61.158...
I don't think there is a real 1:1 German rendering for this, above all because "deutsche Fehlerkultur" can't be compared with how native English speakers deal with mistakes.
What might come closes (IMHO) would be: "Tut mir sehr leid, das habe ich wirklich nicht gewusst."
Maybe "Fehler aus Unwissenheit" is acceptable too.
Antwort: 
closest ... sorry ... not an honest mistake but sloppiness (;  #757963
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 14:23  like dislike  Spam?  213.61.158...
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 14:36  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757964
"Fehler aus Unwissenheit" sounds like it might work - although it sounds like you're admitting to an awful lot more than you are with "an honest mistake" (which for me is a way of saying "I wasn't trying to trick you or gain an unfair advantage, it was (genuinely) just a mistake").
Antwort: 
Agree to anon  #757965
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 14:37  like dislike  Spam?  194.166.183....
Antwort: 
maybe ungewollter Fehler oder unglücklicher Fehler?  #757966
von alexander490 (AT), 2014-06-10, 14:39  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2014-06-10, 14:47  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757968
"ungewollter Fehler" sounds good to me if that's genuinely used in German. That sounds like it includes the explanation of "I didn't do it on purpose, it was just a mistake".
Antwort: 
I'd prefer "unglücklicher Fehler", as "Fehler" automatically implies "ungewollt" I'd say  #757970
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 14:56  like dislike  Spam?  213.61.158...
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 15:01  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757971
4;anonymous, that's a shame as "ungewollter Fehler" had the same feel to me as "honest mistake". What does "ungluecklicher Fehler" imply to German ears?
Antwort: 
to me it implies that the mistake is excusable and happened because the person didn't know any better  #757972
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 15:12  like dislike  Spam?  213.61.158...
although I have heard people say "da hat er ungewollt einen Fehler gemacht" it gives me a picture of a stupid person
maybe I should say that I'm from northern Italy where (a variety of) German is spoken
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 15:15  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757973
Just to be clear "honest mistake" doesn't put any sort of blame on the person who made the mistake or make them sound sloppy or careless. It simply says that the mistake was genuine and not loaded with evil intent. You could also say "It was a genuine mistake" and it would mean the same thing (or at least I think it would).
Antwort: 
quite, I understand this; still, I believe that in German you always puts some sort of blame on the one making a mistake.  #757974
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 15:21  like dislike  Spam?  213.61.158...
I would say: "Ich habe einfach nur ein Fehler gemacht (nicht mehr und nicht weniger)"
But maybe you prefer to hear what Germans say ...
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 15:44  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757978
Oh right, understood. In that case, what I'd say in English is pretty irrelevant.
So what should happen in German if I've made a mistake? It might be easier if I simply know that. What sort of apology is generally preferred and how do we move it along to solutions?
Antwort: 
It really depends on the context and the sentence structure  #757979
von alexander490 (AT), 2014-06-10, 15:50  like dislike  Spam?  
If you made a mistake you didn't want to make you could maybe also say:
Es war ein Missgeschick (e.g. when you broke a vase)

tell us what you did ;)
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2014-06-10, 15:54  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757981
I misunderstood a work email someone had sent asking me to do something, and as a consequence didn't do the thing I'd been asked to.
Antwort: 
"Es tut mir sehr leid, das war mein Fehler. (Ich habe das nicht gewusst)."  #757983
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 16:00  like dislike  Spam?  213.61.158...
My experience is that an apology like this is generally accepted.
(unless you are expected to know ...)
You then move on and correct (or offer to correct) your mistake.
Antwort: 
unglückliche / ungewollt .....   for me -  #757984
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), Last modified: 2014-06-10, 16:01  like dislike  Spam?  
unglücklich = circumstanced
ungewollt = "thought" about all circumstances but it happened anyway ....  edit - didn't mean to ....
Antwort: 
in that case: "Entschuldigung, (das) war mein Fehler."  #757985
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 16:02  like dislike  Spam?  213.61.158...
And that's it - you then move on and do whatever is to be done.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 16:05  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757986
Thanks, anonymous, that's useful.
4;sfl, I don't quite understand your distinction. Can you give examples?
Antwort: 
Mein Fehler.  #757987
von Dracs (DE), 2014-06-10, 16:19  like dislike  Spam?  
Das ist die übliche kurze Erklärung, dass ich hier einen Fehler gemacht habe, zu dem ich stehe und bereit bin, die Verantwortung dafür zu übernehmen.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 16:20  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757988
Thanks, Dracs.
Chat:     
honest mistake  #757989
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2014-06-10, 16:23  like dislike  Spam?  
agree with anon 16:02  ....

- mistake happened even I thought it through and I am (so) (genuine) sorry ..... -  ungewollt (almost feel responsible ....)
on the other hand - mistake happened, for which ever reason (circumstantial) - unglücklich ; don't feel responsible ..... like  "sh.. happens"  .....
....  but maybe that's just me.  ;-))
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 16:28  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757990
4;sfl, that's interesting. In that case "ungluecklicher Fehler" is the equivalent to what I was trying to say with "honest mistake". Is that a normal phrase in Germany or is there a preference for "mein Fehler"?
Antwort: 
agree with Dracs: (Das war) mein Fehler.  #757991
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 16:39  like dislike  Spam?  213.61.158...
Antwort: 
In that case I think the best way to tackle this is to...  #757995
von alexander490 (AT), 2014-06-10, 17:04  like dislike  Spam?  
... explain + apologize
e.g. Es tut mir Leid, ich habe die Email falsch verstanden und deshalb noch nicht damit angefangen.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 17:36  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757999
Thanks, alexander. That was (pretty much) my initial response. In retrospect, I think they were specifically looking for the words "mein Fehler" and I have now learned another lesson about German culture.
Chat:     
Es war einfach nur ein Fehler (meinerseits) ...  #758003
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-06-10, 17:42  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
Ich habe es einfach nur mißverstanden ...

It's interesting to see that our German contributors say the person responsible is mentioned in German.  In my experience German tends to use passive voice for errors to avoid just that.  

alexander490's suggestion probably works best for your particular conundrum.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 17:46  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758005
4;Lisa, that's precisely what I was thinking (about the passive)!
Antwort: 
Variant: honest mistake > bedauerliche Panne  #758012
von Proteus-, 2014-06-10, 18:27  like dislike  Spam?  194.96.45....
Antwort: 
oder  #758018
von Iriemon, 2014-06-10, 19:10  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.117...
tut mir schrecklich leid, das war (wirklich) ein dummer Fehler.
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-10, 19:10  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.117...
 #758019
even Germans admit their own mistakes ;-)
Antwort: 
von ddr (AT), 2014-06-10, 22:16  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758030
Maybe the concept of Fehler is simply more limited than the concept of mistake. A Fehler is always unintentional. You can say, it was an unglücklicher or bedauerlicher or folgenschwerer Fehler because of its consequences, or it was a dummer Fehler, because you should have known better, you can say it was mein Fehler, implying it was  nobody elses mistake ,but yours. But it's definitely always unintentional.
So, I suppose an honest mistake would be an "echter Fehler", not some stupid game you were trying to play.
Antwort: 
Missverstanden  #758047
von Catesse (AU), 2014-06-11, 04:07  like dislike  Spam?  
I think that you would be better going with "missverstehen" in some form. (Neue Rechtschreibung) It was a misunderstanding rather than an error.
Antwort: 
German natives:  #758057
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-06-11, 06:39  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
Could windfall use
dict.cc: Nichts für ungut!
... or would that sound petulant?
Chat:     
Nichts für ungut.   Only if context / relationship is clear.  #758062
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2014-06-11, 08:47  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
von Iriemon, 2014-06-11, 10:27  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.117...
 #758078
"nichts für ungut" is quite colloquial and doesn't the same impact as 16:00, 16:39 or 19:10.

It's more in the direction "never mind" and could be too casual i.e. the speaker brushes off the problem.
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-11, 10:28  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.117...
 #758079
sorry, typo: doesn't have the same impact
Frage:
Edited » antworten
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2014-06-10, 11:46  like dislike  Spam?  
Just realised which word I'd misunderstood!
Antwort: 
I think it is something like "put a message across"  #757948
anonymous, 2014-06-10, 11:47  like dislike  Spam?  213.61.158...
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 11:50  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757949
Agreed :)
Frage:
Wohnträume = Living dreams? » antworten
von alexander490 (AT), 2014-06-10, 11:29  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 11:37  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757945
Context?
Chat:     
Sorry, I thought there is a general word  #757956
von alexander490 (AT), 2014-06-10, 13:25  like dislike  Spam?  
Context:
home improvement, building a house/home
The full sentence is: Wohnträume die in Erfüllung kommen (subtitle)
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 13:38  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757957
Not in English. Linguee's "home design dreams" might work, as in "Home design dreams that come true", but that's not really a standard piece of marketing-speak in English.
Chat:     
:)  #757958
von alexander490 (AT), 2014-06-10, 13:47  like dislike  Spam?  
Linguee's "dream home" might also be a fitting substitute? (e.g.: A dream home that comes true)

otherwise I will use "Home design dreams that come true" like you said :)
Antwort: 
A dream home can't come true :-)  #757969
von Lllama (GB/AT), Last modified: 2014-06-10, 14:47  like dislike  Spam?  
Another possibility - Your dream home made real. (But that's not the most formal way of putting it.)

Google: "dream * made real"
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 15:55  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757982
I like "Your dream home made real", that strikes me as the sort of sentence marketers would use in English.
Antwort: 
that sound very good! :) thanks!  #757994
von alexander490 (AT), 2014-06-10, 16:56  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
Beg to differ: Wohnträume > dream house or flat / apartment  #758011
von Proteus-, 2014-06-10, 18:19  like dislike  Spam?  194.96.45....
Antwort: 
Proteus, I'm not completely sure what you are disagreeing with.  #758026
von Lllama (GB/AT), 2014-06-10, 21:26  like dislike  Spam?  
The use of home instead of house or flat / apartment?

Home covers all types of accomodation (in one word, rather than having to use or) and is used in this type of marketing context as it comes across as more personal.

I think this company probably only do houses, so dream house would also work, but I can't see anything wrong with home.
Chat:     
On a lighter note, house \ home is still a bit of a class indicator  #758031
von Proteus-, 2014-06-10, 22:17  like dislike  Spam?  194.96.45....
U                                                Non-U
They've a very nice house.                 They have (got) a lovely home.
Wikipedia(EN): U_and_non-U_English
Antwort: 
AE: property vs. the place you live in  #758036
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-06-11, 00:19  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
We own 3 houses but we have only one home.  
If we sell or rent out one of our houses we offer it as a home and the renters/buyers would call it their new home.
Builders build houses, but advertize their services as "home builders."
People in run down neighborhoods use those same terms.  

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/06/10/realtors-builders-differ-...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/magazine/08Foreclosure-t.html?pag...
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-11, 09:04  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758064
4;Proteus, the group of people who consistently use U (not non-U) words is relatively small in the UK (and not necessarily particularly rich, as being "U" means your great great grandparents were rich rather than that you are) and I don't see many signs of advertisers catering specifically to people who use U English (for instance I've never seen an ad for lavatory cleaner or loo cleaner rather than toilet cleaner and I've never known Ben and Jerry's or Haagen Dasz to claim they're selling "ice") - although admittedly you will more often hear "the new scent from ..." in an ad than "the new perfume from ...". Do you think the upper classes are the primary market for new builds? Do you think most non-U speakers are aspiring social climbers and would consistently recognise these words as U choices and not the working...
» vollständigen Text anzeigen
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-11, 10:34  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.117...
 #758080
not having an upper class friends I am not really qualified not comment but the WIki list of U-words strikes me mainly as old-fashioned.

You hear older (middle class) people speaking of greens and pudding. Some of the words on the list also strike me as odd (serviette vs napkin).

I watch plenty of these home improvement programmes (not house BTW), and I get the impression "home" is used in marketing speak because it sounds more personal than "house" and has a better selling effect.
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-11, 10:36  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.117...
 #758081
what's with my glasses this morning...

not having any upper class friends I am not really qualified to...
Chat:     
Evidence: Why, Windfall et al., do we get so many Google hits for your dream house / flat? Cf. 18:19  #758101
von Proteus-, 2014-06-11, 12:09  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.50...
Further reading: http://www.helsinki.fi/jarj/ufy/24991_s113_150Ross.pdf

The jury is still out debating the question whether Alan S. C. Ross made a monumental fool of himself or took the mickey out of generations of upwardly mobile bores.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2014-06-11, 12:25  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758107
4;Proteus, you get 521,000 hits for "your dream house" v. 27 milliion for "your dream home" and yet your posts (possibly unintentionally) made it sound like you thought "your dream house" or "your dream flat" or "your dream apartment" were a better choice than "your dream home" because some research done many years ago into word choices by the upper classes at that time should have a key role in influencing word choices in today's marketing translations. My intention was to make it clear to any non-native speakers of English who read this that, in my view, U and non-U are not relevant to the word choices for the vast majority of translations including the vast majority of marketing translations (although, obviously if you were translating a novel about German aristocrats, you might want to factor this information...
» vollständigen Text anzeigen
Chat:     
Further reading II: Wikipedia(EN): Noblesse_Oblige_%28book%29  #758109
von Proteus-, 2014-06-11, 12:23  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.50...
Please bear in mind that Nancy Mitford was a past mistress of irony.   Wikipedia(EN): Nancy_Mitford
Chat:     
Real scores on Google site:uk  #758112
von Proteus-, 2014-06-11, 12:34  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.50...
Your dream home - 477 results  
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=%22your+dream+home%22+%22%22+%22%22+sit...

Your dream house - 400 results
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=%22your+dream+house%22+%22%22+%22%22+si...

In terms of advertising promise, the difference strikes me as much of a muchness.
Chat:     
von MichaelK (US), 2014-06-11, 16:58  like dislike  Spam?  
 #758196
"Dream home" sounds odd when said aloud and in fact, I rarely hear it. With a U.S. speaker saying it, it could easily be mistaken for "dream on!" > "Ja, ja, häng ruhig deinen Wahnvorstellungen nach."
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-11, 18:02  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.119...
 #758207
Chat:     
Sorry, Oxford and others disagree - are you making this up on the hoof, Iriemon?  #758213
von Proteus-, 2014-06-11, 18:54  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.50...
Chat:     
Further LINK: https://www.google.co.uk/#q=%22mobile+home%22+%22%22+%22%22+site:us  #758215
von Proteus-, 2014-06-11, 19:02  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.50...
Antwort: 
(BE) CARAVAN n.   (AE) 1. Mobile home. 2. Trailer. http://projectbritain.com/glossary/index.htm#H  #758216
von Proteus-, 2014-06-11, 19:07  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.50...
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-11, 21:38  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.119...
 #758231
not really, Proteus. I was going on Michael's view. (I tend to pay more heed to knowledgeable native speakers than the printed word ..... I know, that makes me weird and a bit of a pariah here in dict)

And I was referring to dream house vs dream home (see also my comment 10:34). Perhaps I wasn't quite clear on that, mobile homes have nothing to do with it really.
Chat:     
Surely three links cannot establish any AE / BE difference - and you did refer to the printed word in them, didn't you  #758236
von Proteus-, 2014-06-11, 22:43  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.50...
Chat:     
von Iriemon, 2014-06-12, 16:19  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.125....
 #758352
perhaps it's a regional difference then.

All I was saying that "dream home" is a preferred selling/marketing term in BE. However, unless the search engine has gone totally doolally not too many hits as far as general language use is concerned.

https://uk.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A9mSs2t5tplTN1IA5PhLBQx.?p=...
Frage:
advertising, promotion, or production agencies  » antworten
von romy (CZ/GB), 2014-06-10, 10:45  like dislike  Spam?  
Mitarbeiter von "advertising, promotion, or production agencies" dürfen nicht am Wettbewerb teilnehmen. "Advertising agencies" sind Werbeagenturen - aber was würdet ihr mit den beiden anderen Begriffen machen? Eine vage Idee: "Werbe-, Marketing- und PR-Agenturen"? Das ist wahrscheinlich gemeint, denke ich mal, aber es steht leider nicht da!
Antwort: 
I'd say so.    .... und  Mitarbeiter der Firma  ..... auch nicht, aber das steht da wirklich nicht.  #757941
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2014-06-10, 11:13  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2014-06-10, 11:55  like dislike  Spam?  
 #757950
I think "promotion agencies" are agencies involved in this promotion (i.e. the  competition - so probably all the agencies you just mentioned) and production agencies are probably agencies which produce something on behalf of another company. Generally speaking, people who work for or are closely related to people who work for the company holding the competition or other companies involved in holding the competition aren't allowed to enter competitions, so this appears to be an attempt to be more specific and list those types of companies whose employees can't enter. At a guess, the precise meaning of those words is only meaningful to a lawyer or needs testing in court (or has been). They are not instantly meaningful to members of the public like me - except for they mean that you can't enter the competition if you work for one of the companies involved in putting it on.
Antwort: 
Thanks  #757977
von romy (CZ/GB), 2014-06-10, 15:39  like dislike  Spam?  
I guess a rough translation will do. Who reads such stuff anyway? The participants sign it off without reading; they want just the Grand Prize. And it always says anyway, in case of dispute only the original English version counts. Sometimes, translating is really just a waste of time. :(
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