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at » antworten
von gatv (UN), 2017-01-11, 11:25  like dislike  Spam?  
eigentlich sollte das Wörtchen "at" ja keine Schwierigkeit darstellen aber...

Mann: When is your overdue prenatal checkup?
Frau: It's not overdue. I'm at three weeks within standard timeframe.

bedeutet das, dass sie in der dritten Schwangerschaftswoche, und damit noch locker im Zeitrahmen für die erste Voruntersuchung ist (die eigentlich in Woche ~6 stattfindet)?

Es bedeutet:  #862776
von anon., 2017-01-11, 11:45  like dislike  Spam?  77.10.99....
Für das Checkup gibt es einen Zeitrahmen von x Wochen (wobei x größer als 3 ist). Zur Zeit hat sie erst 3 Wochen dieses Zeitrahmens "verbraucht", sie hat also noch Zeit, um die Voruntersuchung durchzuführen
Ich stehe bei drei Wochen ...  #862777
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 11:48  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
Overdue  #862778
von Catesse (AU), 2017-01-11, 11:50  like dislike  Spam?  
The terminology is a bit confusing, but I think that it means that the birth is several weeks overdue, according to the standard methods of estimation. The woman would need a medical check-up to see whether the unborn child is still in good health, or whether medical intervention would be advisable to ensure its survival.
She, however, says that, although the birth is somewhat overdue, it would still be within "normal" parameters.
according to the text, the prenatal checkup is thought to be overdue, not birth  #862779
von anon., 2017-01-11, 11:58  like dislike  Spam?  77.10.99....
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 12:17  like dislike  Spam?  
For weeks 2-28 of a pregnancy, the standard recommendation in the U.S. is one visit every four weeks. She's at week three of four (anon's x = 4).
von gatv (UN), 2017-01-11, 12:18  like dislike  Spam?  
thanks everybody, especially michaelK, in Germany it's a timeframe from 3 weeks, I just found out. So in any case she would be within the Frame.
Phraseology  #862783
von Catesse (AU), 2017-01-11, 12:26  like dislike  Spam?  
The way that the man has phrased his question leaves room for doubt whether it is the checkup that is overdue or the birth. For me at least.
Two usages on internet:
This is a seriously weird alleged interview; I don't think that the alleged interviewer has the faintest idea what he is talking about, and not just at this point.
Second one says: File not found. Error 404. This is not a page.
I think that trying to make sense of this, as it stands, is rather a waste of time.
von gatv (UN), 2017-01-11, 12:35  like dislike  Spam?  
it is very confusing, because in reallity she is fals pregnant. No idea what she thinks in which week of pregnancy she is. Anyway the first check up is in week 8 in the US, NO timeFRAME of several weeks, the others, like michaelk said, in a timeframe of 4 weeks. But for her it has to be the first checkup, because she doesn't know that she isn't pregnant...
crazy series...
von MichaelK (US), 2017-01-11, 12:45  like dislike  Spam?  
4;Catesse: The weirdness is intentional. It's the very thing people love about this (gatv: "crazy") series. :-)
von gatv (UN), 2017-01-11, 12:52  like dislike  Spam?  
the Viewers love it, the critics (at least in Germany) hate it. I'm not sure what I do, but I really prefered The Good Wife :-(
Michael  #862787
von Catesse (AU), 2017-01-11, 12:56  like dislike  Spam?  
I presumed that was something like the case. But my comment still applies. It is a waste or time trying to make sense out of nonsense.
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 13:06  like dislike  Spam?  
Agree, gatv. The Good Wife was a great series. 4;Catesse: It helps to see and hear the acting. I'm not sure if gatv is in a position to do that or has to work from the script only. If the latter, there's no way I could do that.
von gatv (UN), 2017-01-11, 13:14  like dislike  Spam?  
4;michaelk: I do have script AND film (without it wouldn't be possible)
gatv  #862790
von Catesse (AU), 2017-01-11, 13:18  like dislike  Spam?  
Of course, if it is a paid job, then it makes sense to have to work out something. Sorry I can't be helpful.
von gatv (UN), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 13:25  like dislike  Spam?  
4;catesse every thing's fine :-) i just skip the three weeks and stay with the timeframe (maybe I should watch Episode 6 first, even if i don't have to work that one... more craziness ;-))))
von MichaelK (US), 2017-01-11, 13:25  like dislike  Spam?  
4;gatv: So your translation also has to fit into the time it took for the original to be said, or is this done by someone else?
Ging es nicht ursprünglich um die richtige Übersetzung von at three weeks within standard timeframe?  #862793
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 13:35  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
It ought to read at three weeks within the standard time frame, though.
von gatv (UN), 2017-01-11, 13:37  like dislike  Spam?  
4;michaelk: Yes. I have to write the lipp-sync dialogues for the german dubbing actors (and i have a german translation from a colleague - which i understood just as little as the original sentence :). I almost completely quit the job as film-translator because it's paid so horribly bad. I only translate some 2 or 3 (mostly) spanish cinema films a year.
von gatv (UN), 2017-01-11, 13:39  like dislike  Spam?  
4;Proteus: ja klar, aber da es bei der Erstuntersuchung keinen Timeframe von über 3 Wochen gibt ist das alles irgendwie Quark
Sollte der Übersetzer nicht des Quark des Originals treulich rüberbringen und eventuell mit eigenen Anmerkungen die Sachlage klar machen?  #862797
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 13:51  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
... den Quark des ...  #862798
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 13:52  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
Für eine kurze AdÜ gibt's ja jetzt hier genug Material.  #862799
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 13:53  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
von MichaelK (US), 2017-01-11, 13:59  like dislike  Spam?  
4;gatv: Yes, I've heard that the initial translation for meaning only is often misleading. 4;Proteus: Scripts try to reflect how people talk. Some people don't talk so good, at least in the U.S.
Excessive precision is rare in private conversation. If introduced by a know-all exegete, the flavour of the original is lost in a botched trans. #862802
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 14:08  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
von MichaelK (US), 2017-01-11, 14:22  like dislike  Spam?  
Hmmm, yeah, I guess so, Proteus. Outta here.
von gatv (UN), 2017-01-11, 14:28  like dislike  Spam?  
4;Proteus: im Film gibt es leider keinen Platz für AdÜs und Fehler sollten nicht unbedingt übertragen werden. Ich muss noch rausfinden, ob das ein (unbeabsichtigter) Fehler oder absichtlicher Quatsch ist.
Ist es ein Fehler, sich ungenau auszudrücken, wenn Informierte sich auskennen und die anderen gedrängt werden, sich klug zu machen?  #862808
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 14:33  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
von aphoenix (US), 2017-01-11, 15:08  like dislike  Spam?  
The purpose of language is communication.  Anyone who wants to be understood will find it to their advantage to be precise.
Don't you think the man / hubby understood what his girlfriend / wife meant? > 11:25  #862817
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 15:16  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
I have no idea and it doesn't particularly interest me.    #862821
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 15:37  like dislike  Spam?  
However, it is extremely common that spouses  and people in general do not succeed in communicating because they interpret an ambiguous or incorrect statement quite differently.
With respect, the issue here is translation rather than principles of communication.  #862824
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 15:44  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
Sorry...  #862825
von aphoenix (US), 2017-01-11, 15:46  like dislike  Spam?  
"Ist es ein Fehler, sich ungenau auszudrücken, wenn Informierte sich auskennen und die anderen gedrängt werden, sich klug zu machen? " did not seem to me to be specific to the translation.
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 15:47  like dislike  Spam?  
oops.  double post. sorry.
Clinically precise language may be felt to be most inappropriate among intimate friends. So original text seems to be justified.  #862828
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 16:03  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
... So the original ...  #862829
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 16:04  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
Dubbing  #862844
von Catesse (AU), 2017-01-12, 02:32  like dislike  Spam?  
Real skill is needed when translating for dubbing, singing or poetry. Not just the literal meaning and the emotional background, but the number of syllables and the accent pattern, among other considerations. This example will not help with your problem, but it is an example of the job done magnificently. Of course, considering the cost of the productions of Les Mis, they could afford to hire teams of top-notch translators.
Green Berets » antworten
von Catesse (AU), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 08:57  like dislike  Spam?
The Green Berets are not restricted to the United States. Quite a few countries use the green beret for special forces, including Australia.
ja, es werden auch von den Dt. "green berets" getragen.   #862761
von Wenz (DE), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 08:58  like dislike  Spam?  
Aber heißen diese Soldaten in Deutschland auch "die Green Berets" ? Ich glaube nicht. Aber glauben, heißt nix wissen!
von asf, 2017-01-11, 09:17  like dislike  Spam?  87.78.236...
In Deutschland tragen z.B. die Grennies (Panzergrenadiere) grüne Baretts, aber die Stoppelhopser haben sicherlich nicht den Ruf der Green Berets.

Wikipedia(DE): Barett_(Bundeswehr)
Germany  #862764
von Catesse (AU), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 09:27  like dislike  Spam?  
You are right, if course, Wenz. If German troops wore green berets, they would not be called green berets.
But the German green berets are also a different shade of green, and are worn by a different branch of the service.
Wikipedia(EN): Military_beret
I thought that they would be standardised throughout NATO, but they are not.
"aber die Stoppelhopser haben sicherlich nicht den Ruf der Green Berets."  #862879
von migmag (DE), 2017-01-12, 10:58  like dislike  Spam?  
als ehemaliger "Stoppelhopser" kann ich da nur sagen: Obacht! ;)
Noch nie gehört: retraining order protective order  - Ich mache kein Reopen » antworten
von Wenz (DE), 2017-01-11, 07:05  like dislike  Spam?  
... es gab schon einmal einen umstrittenenen restraining order-Eintrag (der mir ein Outvote eingebracht hat). Auch dieser Eintrag hinkt.
Erledigt  #862757
von jumis (CH), 2017-01-11, 08:02  like dislike  Spam?  
Ich hab das für dich erledigt - mich stören Outvotes weniger als falsche Einträge...
Wikipedia article link was provided.  #862758
von aphoenix (US), 2017-01-11, 08:08  like dislike  Spam?  
Here it is again for your convenience.  Wikipedia(EN): Restraining_order
Guidelines und Höflichkeit  #862760
von jumis (CH), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 09:05  like dislike  Spam?  
4;aphoenix: Es geht gar nicht darum, ob dein Vorschlag inhaltlich korrekt ist.

Er hat die falsche Form und widerspricht den Guidelines.

Form: "restraining order (protective order)" kann gemäss den Guidelines gelesen werden als
"restraining order" oder
"restraining order protective order" (wohl kaum eine akzeptierte Variante)

Guidlines Punkt 2: "Don't change a correct translation only because you know a better one. Post the better one as a new entry instead."

Höflichkeit: Das betrifft eher die zwei Voter, vor allem den Verifizierer. Zwei korrekt stimmende User haben ein Outvote erhalten, ohne die kleinste Chance ihr Vote anzupassen. (2x VP5 innert 4 Minuten)
Gute Punkte, jumis. Ganz meine Meinung.  #862762
von parker11 (DE), 2017-01-11, 09:07  like dislike  Spam?  
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 15:00  like dislike  Spam?  
Sorry to have to disillusion you, but the original translation was not correct.  One cannot be expelled from one's home unless one is physically in it.  The term "expulsion" further indicates that the action is permanent.  It is clear from the Wikipedia article Wikipedia(DE): Wohnungsverweisung that the Wohnungsverweisung, like a restraining order forbids a perpetrator of violence from returning to his or her house or apartment for a set period of time: 10 days in the case of the Wohnungsverweisung, variable in the case of a restraining order.  

You had ample time to correct your votes and the finer points of the  entry before the entry was approved.  I entered the correction as a _comment_ on December 17th, and included proper documentation.  The entry was not verified until January 9th.
I agree with aphoenix that the original entry was not correct,  #862809
von Lllama (GB/AT), 2017-01-11, 14:37  like dislike  Spam?  
(as I said at the time ;-) ); but I also agree that the suggested correction was not in the correct format.

An entry for restraining order would need some disambiguation to show that it means that the person is not allowed to return to their home. In the UK, restraining orders often mean the person can't go near another person rather than a particular place.
von aphoenix (US), 2017-01-11, 14:59  like dislike  Spam?  
I welcome suggestions for correcting the format.
Disambiguation (comments which explain the meaning of the word or phrase)...  #862818
von Lllama (GB/AT), 2017-01-11, 15:19  like dislike  Spam?  
should be in square brackets. Round brackets show a part of the phrase that can be omitted. - section 5 gives more information about brackets.

I can't think of a better term than restraining order at the moment, but as I said, it definitely needs a distinguishing comment.
restraining order [protective order, typically on account of domestic violence]?  #862823
von aphoenix (US), 2017-01-11, 15:33  like dislike  Spam?  
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2017-01-13, 04:37  like dislike  Spam?  
After several hours of research, I can report the following:  It seems to be typical in Europe that the eviction and the barring of a perpetrator of violence from the home are viewed as two separate steps.  However, according to the following citation, these are "in der Regel" combined as they usually are in the US.

Gemäß § 34 Abs. 1 S. 1 PolG NRW kann die Polizei zur Abwehr einer Gefahr eine Person vorübergehend von einem Ort verweisen oder ihr vorübergehend das Betreten eines Ortes verbieten. § 34 Abs. 1 S. 1 PolG NRW enthält also zwei gefahrenabwehrrechtliche Standardermächtigungen: Zum einen ein Entfernungsgebot, d.h. die Befugnis, eine Person von einem Ort zu verweisen, und zum anderen ein Betretungsverbot, d.h. die Befugnis, einer Person das Betreten eines Ortes zu verbieten. Das Entfernungsgebot und das Betretungsgebot werden in der Regel miteinander kombiniert.

The Betretungsgebot is also called a Rueckkehrsverbot.
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2017-01-13, 05:32  like dislike  Spam?  
To preserve the separation in this entry, we then need to find an appropriate English equivalent for only the "Wohnungsverweisung" part of the process.  The two most commonly used terms that I have found are vacation (used in a literal sense) and eviction, with eviction being by far the most common.  It is called eviction regardless of whether the perpetrator is being removed from a rented/leased property or from an owned property.  I changed the term to eviction, but then thought better of it.  Here's why:  In Germany,  the Wohnungsverweisung precedes the Rueckkehrsverbot.  On the other hand, in the US, eviction is a legal process that takes some time, whereas a restraining order can be obtained quickly.  Thus it is the (temporary) restraining order, not the eviction that requires the perpetrator to vacate the property.  The eviction is pursued later in order to terminate the rights of the perpetrator to the lease or home.  I welcome discussion from others as to whether "eviction" or "restraining order" best fits the definition and role of the Wohnungsverweisung.
von aphoenix (US), 2017-01-13, 05:22  like dislike  Spam?  
Lastly, I would like to again address the issue of choice of sources. In support of the term "expulsion", a doctoral law thesis has been cited.  The author of the thesis is addressing the  question of how removing a perpetrator of domestic violence from the family dwelling place can be reconciled with the sanctity of the home (Unverletzlichkeit der Wohnung) and perpetrator's right to personal protection and property (Grundrecht im persönliche Schutzbereich)..The author analyzes laws from different Bundeslaender along with national laws as they relate to the issue of separating the perpetrator from the victim.  The contribution of the dissertation is to propose model laws for the protection of victims of domestic violence, basing the model laws on the previous legal analysis. The author's characterization of the Wohnungsverweisung as "expulsion" is consistent with other literature from EC countries found by google, though many other documents refer to the process as a barring order.  Nevertheless, there is no justification for use of this term in the US, where the corresponding word eviction could be chosen.
Dann schreibt halt [Am.] bzw. [Br.] dazu.  #862929
von parker11 (DE), 2017-01-13, 05:43  like dislike  Spam?  
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2017-01-13, 05:54  like dislike  Spam?  
Sure.  Was just waiting to hear from the [Br.]  side.  Our laws were originally patterned on Englands so there are a lot of similarities.
Warum soll "expulsion from one's home " falsch sein?  #863017
von teadrinker (AT/DE), 2017-01-15, 09:49  like dislike  Spam?  
Dem kann ich nicht zustimmen. "expulsion from one's home" scheint ein korrekter englischer Ausdruck zu sein.
von aphoenix (US), 2017-01-15, 17:17  like dislike  Spam?  
1) Because one cannot be expelled unless one is actually there, which the abuser may or may not be.
2) Restraining order clearly conveys that the objective is to keep the abuser from further abusing the victim.  Expulsion from one's home could be a result of malice, and thus gives the impression that the abuser is the victim of unfair treatment.
[Am.] / [Br.] » antworten
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 04:37  like dislike  Spam?  
There has been an effort by some to identify words with distinctly American or British spellings to label them as such.  Certainly, it makes perfect sense to label "check" as American and "cheque" as British.  

However, there are borderline cases where one spelling is used only in the US but the other spelling is used both places.  It would seem to me that in such a case, the exclusively American spelling should be labelled as such, but the other should be left alone.  

In fact, "labelled" is such an example.  Many of us were taught that two "l"s were required because with only one "l", the word would be pronounced "labeeled".  It's a basic rule of English pronunciation that if a vowel is separated from the next syllable by a sincle consonent, it is a long vowel, whereas if it is separate by two consonants it is a short vowel.  Examples: "bided", "paned", "coded", "ceded", vs. "billed", "called", "potted", "celled", "tented", and "sanded".  "backed" vs. "baked", "pocked" vs. "poked", "planted" vs. "planed".

Do others think that we should be adding [Br.] labels to words used in both the US and abroad?
Syllables and double letters  #862753
von Catesse (AU), 2017-01-11, 06:21  like dislike  Spam?  
There is a big difference between the treatment of monosyllabic words and polysyllabic words. The examples you give are not really equivalent to words such as "label(l)ed". There are also variations according to the syllable that is stressed, and "-el" is not treated the same as "-er" and "-et". In some cases, Br. and Am. are the same, in some cases not.
There was a similar discussion maybe a year or two ago about "-ise" and "-ize". It would be a good idea to sort out this problem officially and make a binding decision. So let's dig out the dictionaries and style manuals, online and hard-copy, and see whether a consensus can be reached -- whether we can come to a reasonable dict compromise, irrespective of what other dictionaries do.
And when that has been done, we stick to it, whether we like it or not. Anyone who disagrees can simply avoid any entry in which the situation arises.
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 06:31  like dislike  Spam?  
Catesse is much more knowledgeable on this subject than I.  I welcome the opportunity to  learn the more sophisticated guidelines.  The sad thing is that less grammar is taught today than was taught when I was in school.
aphoenix  #862755
von Catesse (AU), 2017-01-11, 06:49  like dislike  Spam?  
I used to be a good grammarian. I used to teach high school English as well as German and French. I also did some editing.  But rules and customs have changed, and my memory is not what it used to be anyway.
And irrespective of what either of us thinks I feel it might be a good idea to sort this out. If it has already been done and I either missed the forum or have forgotten it, please remind me.
Am. / Br.  #862765
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2017-01-11, 10:10  like dislike  Spam?  
GL -
" Terms common to American and British English require no regional tag. e.g.
- to realize = einsehen
- to realise [Br.] = einsehen "

und dann haben wir ja auch noch   [spv.]  [Rsv.] ....
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2017-01-11, 10:13  like dislike  Spam?  
Wir sollten das Problem wirklich in den GL verankern  #862767
von Wenz (DE), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 10:45  like dislike  Spam?  
Ich bin dafür, daß wir wie bei -ization / -isation verfahren.
Und vor allen Dingen bin ich dafür, daß der M-W herangezogen wird bei einer Entscheidungsfindung, wenn die amerik. Seite betroffen ist (und nicht OD).
In obigem Link befindet sich auch eine Frage von narionk betr. modeling #742672
Kopiert aus M-W Unabridged:
mod·eled or mod·elled; modeled or modelled; modeling or mod·el·ling; mod·els

Wir sehen, daß es immer wieder Meinungsverschiedenheiten gibt - das ist ärgerlich und mMn kann da nur eine klare GL Abhilfe schaffen.
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2017-01-11, 10:57  like dislike  Spam?  
Kann nicht so ganz nachvollziehen warum nicht auch OED ..... es ist nicht   "Br. blinkered" ....

" model, v.
View as: Outline |Full entryKeywords: On |OffQuotations: Show all |Hide all
Pronunciation:  Brit. /ˈmɒdl/,  U.S. /ˈmɑd(ə)l/
Inflections:   Present participle modelling, (chiefly U.S.) modeling; past tense and past participle modelled, (chiefly U.S.) modeled;
Forms:  15–16 modell, 15– model, 16 moddel; Sc. pre-17 moddel, pre-17 moddell... (Show More)
Frequency (in current use):  
Origin: Formed within English, by conversion. Etymon: model n.
Etymology: < model n. Compare Middle French, French modeler (1585 in sense ‘to make to resemble something’, 1600 in sense 4a), Italian modellare (1598 in Florio).(Show Less) "
special  /  chiefly  #862769
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2017-01-11, 11:07  like dislike  Spam?  
Bin für  kein "special / chiefly"  tag
aber für den Hinweis  spv. / Rsv.
sunfun... Weil der "normale Online-OD" mißverständlich ist.  #862770
von Wenz (DE), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 11:27  like dislike  Spam?  
Siehe British & World English
Für mich bedeutet das dann, daß modelling eben NICHT Am. ist.
Deshalb halte ich einen Abgleich mit m-W (oder American Heritage) für sehr sinnvoll
v. mod·eled, mod·el·ing, mod·els also mod·elled or mod·el·ling

Betr. [spv.]
Wie wäre dann der Eintrag
modelling [Br.] [spv. Am. bzw. Am. spv.]
modelling [spv. Am. bzw. Am. spv.]
Responsibility to the dict user  #862772
von geo255 (US), 2017-01-11, 11:28  like dislike  Spam?  
We owe it to the dict user to give spelling guidance where differences exist between countries.  Unfortunately, English has no semblance of a canonical linguistic reference.  OED isn't Duden (some would complain about Duden's insufficiencies).

Here, I suggest we anglophones follow our own experience.  In the U.S., for example, 'modelling' is less common than 'modeling'.  In fact my spell checker just flagged the former.  In such cases, an 'esp. Br.' tag should be used for the former and a 'AE' for the latter (since I assume 'modeling' isn't tolerated in the U.K.).

We shouldn't rely just on OED in these matters since its flagging is not always consistent.  Merriam-Webster and are reasonable supplements.  However, in the last resort, our own anglophone experience should be brought to bear.

I don't expect that there will be universal agreement either on this strategy or on the application of this strategy (assuming that it is accepted).  That's fine as it mirrors the lack of uniformity in many (most?) of the world's languages.
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2017-01-11, 11:31  like dislike  Spam?  
4;Wenz - Ok. Aber ich meine nicht den "normalen Online-OD"  .....
mein link ist vom "big" OED .... Online-Zugriff zum kompletten dictionary über library card .... und  da ist dann kein grosser Unterschied .....  es wird dort  "chiefly U.S."   erwähnt   oder wann auch immer  "region"  ....
von daher bin ich für   spv.  / Rsv.
we were in a time warp .....  #862774
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2017-01-11, 11:42  like dislike  Spam?  
Duden / OED / MW / ?!  are not the "bible"  ..... but some guidance anyway. They are paid to get a headache.

Do we need to mention the country, or is a simple  spv.  enough ?
zu unterschiedlicher Darstellung OD online und Abo-Version von sunfunlili  #862780
von Wenz (DE), 2017-01-11, 11:59  like dislike  Spam?  
Ergänze ich hiermit auch unterschiedliche Darstellungen M-W anhand des Beispiels
tumor tumour

M-W Online:
chiefly British variant of tumor

M-W Unabridged:

or British tu·mour
Wie sollen wir da eine Lösung finden? Ich kann das Argument von geo255 nachvollziehen. Aber eigentlich auch nicht!
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 15:02  like dislike  Spam?  
A spell-checker cannot be relied upon to determine usage.  Microsoft Word "corrects" modelling to "modeling", but I think it is fair to say that most of us would not want Microsoft to be the ultimate language authority.  If Microsoft Word selected one of multiple correct spellings of a German word and refused to recognize the others, would that trump the Duden?  Surely not.  

Webster's first dictionary was self-published in 1828. It was compiled by Noah Webster over decades of research and was intended, and eventually embraced, as the ultimate arbiter of American usage.  The second edition was published in 1841.  The unabridged version was published in 1864.  The definitions have been cited in court cases over the years.

The Oxford English Dictionary is newer.  It was first published in segments, starting in 1884, fifty-six years after the first complete version of Webster's dictionary.  A complete version was published in 1895.  It is valued by American academics, but seldom consulted by the average American, who may or may not know that it exists.
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 15:06  like dislike  Spam?  
The issue of regional usage is much larger than trying to micromanage terms by defining them a "chiefly x".  Per Wikipedia (source for all info in this post)  "In 2015, there were 54 sovereign states and 27 non-sovereign entities where English was an official language"  The population of the United States is roughly three times that of the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada combined.  The population of India is more than three times the population of the United States.  

Ignoring India and the rest of the world for a moment and going back to "chiefly British", if one third of the US population and all of the populations of the UK, Australia, New Zealand and Canada use the same spelling,  that would mean that half of all users of that spelling were Americans.

I will abide by whatever decision the group makes, and with one exception (an accident that I decided to let stand) have only commented on the [esp. Br.] labels.  However, until a formal decision is made, I do not think it is incorrect to vote according to Merriam-Webster regarding American usage.
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), Last modified: 2017-01-11, 16:43  like dislike  Spam?  
just for the record .....   the new one ..... there was an older one .....
" ..... When the members of the Philological Society of London decided, in 1857, that existing English language dictionaries were incomplete and deficient, and called for a complete re-examination of the language from Anglo-Saxon times onward, they knew they were embarking on an ambitious project. However, even they didn’t realize the full extent of the work they initiated, or how long it would take to achieve the final result. .....
.... The new dictionary was planned as a four-volume, 6,400-page work that would include all English language vocabulary from the Early Middle English period (1150 AD) onward, plus some earlier words if they had continued to be used into Middle English. ..... "

" The first book generally regarded as the first English dictionary was written as Robert Cawdrey, a schoolmaster and former Church of England clergyman, in 1604 Cawdrey made use of wordlists published earlier in educational texts, such as Richard Mulcaster’s Elementary (1582) and Edmund Coote’s English Schoole-maister (1596). "
von aphoenix (US), 2017-01-11, 16:54  like dislike  Spam?  
Interestng.  Thanks.
aphoenix (and others)  #862845
von Catesse (AU), 2017-01-12, 02:46  like dislike  Spam?  
My computer is set to "English (Australia)", of course. And the spellcheck tags "modeling" as incorrect.
von aphoenix (US), 2017-01-12, 05:55  like dislike  Spam?  
Yes.  I completely agree that "modeling" should be tagged [Am.]  My concern is only with spellings and words that are used in the US as well as the UK, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand.  I believe that it is misleading to  tag them as "chiefly British"  when, due to the fact that the US is much larger than the above four combined, it is possible that a simple majority of those who use the spelling are, in fact, in the US.
Absolut oder relativ?  #862912
von jumis (CH), Last modified: 2017-01-12, 19:43  like dislike  Spam?  
Ich verstehe deinen Standpunkt, aphoenix. Aber vielleicht könnte man es ja auch relativieren:
33% aller Amerikaner vs. 99% aller Briten = [esp. Br.]

Die Zahl 33% stammt von deinem Beitrag weiter oben und ist wohl nur als Beispiel zu verstehen.

Dies nur als Anregung. Ich möchte den eigentlichen Entscheid den EN-Muttersprachlern überlassen. Allerdings kann so ein [Tag] schon eine Hilfestellung sein beim Erstellen von Texten für die entsprechende Zielgruppe.
Stats » antworten
von Catesse (AU), 2017-01-11, 01:47  like dislike  Spam?  
Woo-hoo! Christmas and the New Year silly season are over, and yesterday the access hits on dict topped nine million. For the first time, I think.
Grooming your portfolio? » antworten
von Proteus-, 2017-01-10, 23:02  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.55....
This app will notify you if Trump tweets about a company you’re invested in
bleeding heart: informal, derogatory A person considered to be excessively soft-hearted or liberal: » antworten
von Wenz (DE), 2017-01-10, 19:29  like dislike  Spam?
Da die Eintrag mit Klammer mit Doppelpunkt nach coll. aus dem Jahr 2006 stammt [coll .: person] wollte ich das korrigieren. Aber ich verstehe den Eintrag nicht ganz.
OD sagt "derogatory". Aber "mitfühlende Seele" ist doch überhaupt nicht derogatory. Oder?
von ddr (AT), 2017-01-10, 20:01  like dislike  Spam?  
Da müßte man wohl so etwas wie sentimentaler Hund (oder sentimentale Kuh) wählen, wenn es pej. sein soll.
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2017-01-10, 20:10  like dislike  Spam?  
Here's the Webster's definition: "a person who shows extravagant sympathy especially for an object of alleged persecution".  The words "extravagent" and "alleged", are significant. The phrase "bleeding heart liberal" arose as a reaction to the frequent assertions that, e.g. poverty and discrimination were the roots of all evil.   Thus, if someone was found guilty of a crime, it was (and still is) argued by some that it was/is unfair to lock them up because it was was not their own fault but the fault of their having had an unhappy childhood.  Similarly it has been alleged that requiring everyone to meet the same criteria for obtaining a mortgage, is discriminatory because "it has a disproportionate effect on minorities".  Unfortunately, changing the criteria to allow more people to obtain mortgages doesn't make...
» vollständigen Text anzeigen
Die vorgeschlagene deutsche Entsprechung passt halt nicht. Es geht um Wörter für übersensibel / einen übersensiblen Menschen   #862725
von Proteus-, 2017-01-10, 20:07  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.55....
von ddr (AT), Last modified: 2017-01-10, 22:45  like dislike  Spam?  
Sensibelchen passt aber auch überhaupt nicht auf die Definition von aphoenix.
ja, Nitram gibt im Comment an: e.g These bleeding heart liberals are the cause of all the crime we have nowadays.  #862729
von Wenz (DE), 2017-01-10, 20:43  like dislike  Spam?  
wie aphoenix

Wenn wir das geklärt haben, können wir noch einen separaten Eintrag für Sensibelchen machen.
Oder korrigieren: bleeding heart liberal = ?  #862730
von Wenz (DE), Last modified: 2017-01-10, 20:51  like dislike  Spam?  
Vielleicht gibt es hier was Annäherendes:
Liberaler mit weichem Herzen
Achtung: liberal / Liberaler und AE liberal sind falsche Freunde!  #862731
von Proteus-, 2017-01-10, 21:19  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.55....

liberal [AE] > aufgeschlossen gegenüber der sozialen Frage

Das unterscheidet sich doch gewaltig von dem, was in Europa als liberale Denkungsart gilt.
Vielleicht erweitert: liberal [AE] > aufgeschlossen gegenüber der sozialen Frage und Umweltthemen  #862732
von Proteus-, 2017-01-10, 21:20  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.55....
Vorschlag: bleeding heart > gefühlsduseliges Weichei; bleeding-heart (attributive) > gefühlsduselig  #862733
von Proteus-, 2017-01-10, 21:29  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.55....
Weichei  #862734
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2017-01-10, 21:40  like dislike  Spam?  
das kam mir gleich in den Sinn ....

und dann all die Sozialarbeiter, die nur das Gute und Nette etc. sahen/sehen ..... für alles eine super Erklärung hatten ..... alles lieb un nett .....
und das passt dann zu  " ....are the cause of all the crime we have nowadays."
Sorry, kein Übersetzungsvorschlag auf die Schnelle ....
von ddr (AT), 2017-01-10, 22:01  like dislike  Spam?  
Wir haben auch noch das herrlichste aller Wörter: Gutmensch! (irony off)
sehr interessante Diskussion  #862736
von silverhare (DE), 2017-01-10, 22:05  like dislike  Spam?  
Wenn man den Kontext von Pink Floyd "The Wall" nimmt <...the bleeding hearts and artists ...> käme das ja in die Nähe des Unwort des letzten Jahres: "Gutmensch".
von B-heart, 2017-01-10, 22:18  like dislike  Spam?  46.90.146...
Wenn man bedenkt, dass sich die Bezeichnung von den kitschigen Bildern ableitet, die Jesus mit blutigem Herzen zeigen, könnte man den Begriff auch als "jemand, der tatsächlich an christliche Werte wie Nächstenliebe glaubt" umschreiben. Die meisten Amerikaner, die sich "Christen" nennen, verehren ja nicht den ungewaschenen Hippie, der solche  Parolen verbreitet, sondern ihr Jesus ist eher wie Rambo bis an die Zähne bewaffnet und führt die Himmlischen Heerscharen in die Schlacht gegen die Bösen (= alle Nicht-WASPs).
Herz Jesu und bleeding heart scheinen nur marginal zu überlappen, wenn man sie ikonologisch vergleicht  #862738
von Proteus-, 2017-01-10, 22:27  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.55....
Das wird mir alles zu viel...  #862739
von Wenz (DE), 2017-01-10, 22:40  like dislike  Spam?  
bleeding heart [fig.] [coll.] [pej.]  ---> gefühlsduseliges Weichei {n} [ugs.] [pej.]
Danke Proteus  #862741
von Wenz (DE), 2017-01-10, 23:20  like dislike  Spam?  
bleeding-heart [attr.] eingegeben als gefühlsduselig und gefühlsduslig
ddr  #862743
von silverhare (DE), 2017-01-10, 23:35  like dislike  Spam?  
4 Minuten. Ich hatte es noch n icht auf dem Schirm. Tut mir leid.
Warte, bis der Protestchor aus voller Kehle alles niederbrüllt  #862744
von Proteus-, 2017-01-10, 23:36  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.55....
Gedacht zu 23:20  #862745
von Proteus-, 2017-01-10, 23:42  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.55....
von aphoenix (US), 2017-01-11, 00:23  like dislike  Spam?  
Vieleicht auch rühr­se­lig?  (Laut Duden ist "ruehrselig" ein Synonym von "gefühlsduseliges".)
rührselig erscheint mir als gute Variante zu gefühlsduselig  #862775
von Proteus-, 2017-01-11, 11:45  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81...
ok, nun habe ich bleeding heart abgeändert ... pej. als Gutmensch  #862917
von Wenz (DE), 2017-01-12, 22:39  like dislike  Spam?  
- siehe obne » antworten
von Wenz (DE), Last modified: 2017-01-10, 19:29  like dislike  Spam?  
what would be an appropriate translation for INTERDISZIPLINÄRES FORSCHUNGSZENTRUM KINDHEITEN.GESELLSCHAFTEN » antworten
von delhidelhi, 2017-01-10, 14:41  like dislike  Spam?  103.48.109...
von Proteus-, 2017-01-10, 14:55  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.55....
childhood / Kindheit kennen normalerweise keine Mehrzahl. In den Wissenschaften ist sie aber sowohl im E als auch im D eingeführt.
von MichaelK (US), 2017-01-10, 15:14  like dislike  Spam?  
Just add a colon after 'centre' if you want to write it like the Zentrum does.
kollation » antworten
von dakel, 2017-01-10, 12:27  like dislike  Spam?  217.82.244....
Und wie lautet deine Frage?  #862709
von Ivy (DE), 2017-01-10, 12:32  like dislike  Spam?  
Oder einfach mal im Wörterbuch nachschlagen... Kollation
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