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English-German Translation Forum

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Frage:
[SPAM]» antworten
von emmaann (UN), 2017-12-05, 18:04  
Frage:
hall pass » antworten
von edeniz (AT), 2017-12-05, 17:01  Spam?  
In Schulen im deutschsprachigen Raum (oder sonst irgendeinem europäischen Land, soweit ich weiß) gibt es keine Notwendigkeit für Schüler, einen "hall pass" zu haben nur damit man während der Unterrichtszeit aufs WC zu gehen oder sich woanders in der Schule aufzuhalten.

Wie zum Henker übersetzt man aber dieses US-Englische Wort? Ich versuche hier einen Text zu übersetzen wo diese Phrase öfter vorkommt (z.B. "I'll give you a hall pass so you won't get in trouble," said the nurse.), finde aber Approximationen wie Flurgenehmigung dusselig. Gibt es wirklich keine bessere Wortwahl dafür? Ich frage mich was Übersetzer von US-Englischen Jugend Büchern in solchen Fällen wählen.

Kann mir hier jemand weiterhelfen? Danke! :)
Antwort: 
In Analogie zum Militärischen, (innerschulischer) Passierschein  #883360
von Proteus-, 2017-12-05, 17:36  Spam?  194.96.52....
Antwort: 
von edeniz (AT), 2017-12-05, 18:16  Spam?  
 #883363
Vielen Dank! :) "Passierschein" ist wenigstens besser als "Flurgenehmigung". :)
Frage:
adjective placing » antworten
von nigilmaadhust (UN), 2017-12-05, 16:53  Spam?  
Hallo Forum,

I don't know, how to write the second English sentence in German. Could you please help?

1. Are all currencies valid in Europe? -> Sind alle Währungen in Europa gültig?

2. Are all currencies in Europe valid? -> Sind alle Währungen gültig in Europa?

Many thanks in advance!
Antwort: 
von edeniz (AT), 2017-12-05, 17:05  Spam?  
 #883353
Correct translations:

1. Are all currencies valid in Europe? -> Sind alle Währungen gültig in Europa?

2. Are all currencies in Europe valid? -> Sind alle Währungen in Europa gültig?

Basically your translations were correct, just mixed up. Otherwise I see no problems with them. You know how it is: word placement influences meaning due to context. The question is what your context is. What is the sentence supposed to ask? That defines which of these two sentences are better used for whatever you had in mind.
Antwort: 
Hello edeniz, thanks a lot!  #883355
von nigilmaadhust (UN), Last modified: 2017-12-05, 17:16  Spam?  
I thought that in German "adjective" should only be placed at the end of the sentence.

For example,

1) Es ist für uns möglich.
2) Es ist möglich für uns.

Here sentence 2 is not correct (pardon my guess!).

I read many German sentences that have had the adjectives only at the end of the sentence. So I guessed,
"Sind alle Währungen gültig in Europa" was wrong, because the adjective "gültig" was not in the last place.

Could you please explain? Many thanks in advance.
Antwort: 
von edeniz (AT), Last modified: 2017-12-05, 18:42  Spam?  
 #883362
I think you're confusing something. Adjectives in German are used as:

1) an attribute (e.g. Er ist ein guter Sänger. -- He is a good singer.)
2) adverbially (e.g. Er singt gut. -- He sings good. or: Das ist ein schönes rotes Auto. -- This is a beautiful red car.)

Your second example does not fit with the first, if you take a look. "Uns" means "us" and is a pronoun, not an adjective. Strictly speaking the best sentence for your second example would be "Es ist uns möglich", but even then I wouldn't say the second choice is wrong or unused. It's just not like the contrast of "It's for us possible" and "It's possible for us" in English.

An example to better explain:

Q: Schmeckt euch das Essen?  
A: Ja, es schmeckt uns.

This is a grammatically correct answer, there is no problem with the pronoun...
» vollständigen Text anzeigen
Antwort: 
Hallo edeniz, guten Tag!  #883375
von nigilmaadhust (UN), 2017-12-06, 07:10  Spam?  
I read your explanation. I have prepared some examples in this regard. The adjective placing at the end -

Please explain, which one is standard German

1) Ich bin für SAP-Workflow zuständig.
oder
2) Ich bin zuständig für SAP-Workflow.

3) Die Datei ist von dem Scanner lesbar.
oder
4) Die Datei ist lesbar von dem Scanner.

Many thanks and have a nice day!
Frage:
auch... » antworten
von JamesNPt (UN), 2017-12-05, 12:27  Spam?  
Finanzmarktabhängige Systeme sind keineswegs resistenter gegen demografische Veränderungen. Sie sind aber weit weniger in der Lage, auch unter deutlich verschärften demografischen Rahmenbedingungen flächendeckend angemes-sene Alterseinkommen sicherzustellen.

Why "auch"?

[pension] Schemes dependent on financial markets are by no means more robust in the face of demographic changes. Not only that, but they are much less able to ensure adequate retirement incomes across the board, even under appreciably more difficult demographic conditions.
Antwort: 
auch ....  #883330
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2017-12-05, 13:14  Spam?  
auch = selbst wenn .....
even if ....
Antwort: 
von ddr (AT), Last modified: 2017-12-05, 13:26  Spam?  
 #883332
auch im Sinn von 'auch noch'.
Anders formuliert:  Sie können vielleicht in einer 'normalen' demografischen Lage angemessene Alterseinkommen sicherstellen, aber sie sind keineswegs fähig, das AUCH unter verschärften Rahmenbedingungen zu tun.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2017-12-05, 14:16  Spam?  
 #883334
I wonder if the sense here might be "including"
Schemes dependent on financial markets are by no means more robust in the face of demographic changes. But they are much less able to ensure adequate retirement incomes across the board, including under much more difficult demographic conditions.
Alternatively, based on what ddr said, possibly:
Schemes dependent on financial markets are by no means more robust in the face of demographic changes. But when also faced with much more difficult demographic conditions, they are much less able to ensure adequate retirement incomes across the board.
Chat:     
auch  #883335
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), Last modified: 2017-12-05, 14:34  Spam?  
selbst wenn / auch noch ..... here almost same difference .....   Satz muss nur umgestellt werden .....
Antwort: 
Yes!  #883336
von JamesNPt (UN), 2017-12-05, 14:39  Spam?  
Put in "das" before the "auch" and it makes perfect sense (and of course I know the entire article, which naturally I didnt include here).

Thanks very much indeed!
Chat:     
Wärmstens empfohlen: selbstgemachter Holunderblütensirup / Recommended warmly: DIY elderberry flower syrup  #883356
von Proteus-, 2017-12-05, 17:18  Spam?  194.96.52....
Chat:     
So sorry, wrong thread  #883357
von Proteus-, 2017-12-05, 17:19  Spam?  194.96.52....
Frage:
Misspelling? » antworten
von Jim46 (US), 2017-12-05, 12:18  Spam?  
Antwort: 
von ohno, 2017-12-05, 12:51  Spam?  195.14.21...
 #883327
In case there is any doubt, here is an pdf version:

https://www.uni-due.de/lyriktheorie/scans/1906_dilthey.pdf

Also found an explanation for the name somewhere:

"Holder oder Holunder: Wohnstättenname zu mhd. holder, verkürzt aus Holunder. Vor allem in Würtemberg ist Holder ein häufiger Flurname. Holderlin = allemanische Ableitung von Holder. In Würtemberg ist der Flurname "im Holder" häufig belegt. Der Dichter Friedrich Hölderlin (18/19 Jh.) stammt aus Würtemberg. Sein Wappen zeigt einen Holunderstängel."
Antwort: 
von ddr (AT), 2017-12-05, 13:29  Spam?  
 #883333
Danke, Jim. Habs korrigiert.
Antwort: 
Wärmstens empfohlen: selbstgemachter Holunderblütensirup / Recommended warmly: DIY elderberry flower syrup   #883358
von Proteus-, 2017-12-05, 17:23  Spam?  194.96.52....
Antwort: 
von Lllama (GB/AT), 2017-12-05, 21:13  Spam?  
 #883366
More commonly known as elderflower cordial - at least in the UK.
Google: "elderflower cordial"
Chat:     
Aldi has it on offer as a Swedish specialty  #883368
von romy (CZ/AU), 2017-12-05, 22:37  Spam?  
Worldwide I guess, in all Aldi stores (of course not "selbstgemacht")
Frage:
aus der Tiefe des Raumes das Spiel kontrollieren » antworten
von philistine (DE/ZA), 2017-12-05, 11:47  Spam?  
Und gleich noch eine Frage: Gibt es im Englischen eine Entsprechnung für die Fussball-Maxime aus der Tiefe des Raumes (das Spiel kontrollieren/lenken), oder eine Entsprechung im US-Sport mit ähnlicher Bedeutung? Es geht dabei darum, dass man das Spielfeld vor sich hat, um von da aus das Spielgeschehen zu lenken (ein bisschen so wie ein quarterback). In meinem konkreten Fall geht es um den Sicherheitschef einer Firma, der sich im Hintergrund hält, um die Geschehnisse zu überwachen und zu kontrollieren. Also etwas in Richtung he keeps in the background (shadows?) to control the game/everything... so dass es von amerikanischen Muttersprachlern verstanden wird...
Antwort: 
Bit of a snide cliché, isn't it?  #883354
von Proteus-, 2017-12-05, 17:09  Spam?  194.96.52....
Symptomatic of this is the expression: 'Netzer kam aus der Tiefe des Raums' ('Netzer came out of the depth of space'). It put the power of fascination and the aesthetic quality of football as a culturally legitimated object into words and became a familiar quotation in intellectual circles (Harig and Kiihn 1974; Pyta 2004a: 2; ...
https://books.google.at/books?id=7jrtd89ilHkC&pg=PA15&lpg=P...
Antwort: 
von philistine (DE/ZA), 2017-12-06, 08:23  Spam?  
 #883378
Thanks for the link, Proteus. As someone interested in football I actually know where this expression comes from and what it means. :-) I also have seen the literal translation you quoted above. But as explained in my question, I need it in a different context and was looking for an expression that Americans might understand (if there is something like that in AE) since I'm not sure that they know what is meant with the literal translation.
If there's nothing like that in AE I might just leave it out of the translation or paraphrase it...
Frage:
Krawalltouristen » antworten
von philistine (DE/ZA), 2017-12-05, 11:34  Spam?  
Hi, ich habe mit Verwunderung festgestellt, dass es Krawalltouristen hier (und anderswo) noch nicht ins Wörterbuch geschafft hat. Als Übersetzung für dieses Wort habe ich nur bei Langenscheidt eine Übersetzung gefunden. Dort wird professional rioter vorgeschlagen, was ich aber nicht so gut finde. Besser und näher am beabsichtigten Sinn ist meiner Meinung nach so etwas wie riot tourist. Was meinen die Muttersprachler dazu?
Antwort: 
Google: "hooligan tourist"  #883315
von goog1, 2017-12-05, 11:58  Spam?  62.155.235....
Antwort: 
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2017-12-05, 14:14  Spam?  
 #883329
I'm not exactly sure why, but think that anything with 'tourist' is just not going to work very well. From my student days, I clearly remember "outside agitator." It surprised me to find that this term is still in use. It's politically loaded because it's often used (sometimes in scare quotes) to shift blame or to deny the existence of a social problem. The 'outside' implies travel.
Google: "outside agitators" charlottesville
Antwort: 
von philistine (DE/ZA), 2017-12-05, 16:04  Spam?  
 #883346
Thanks goog1 and MichaelK for your suggestions!
You're right of course that violence often is the result of some (social) problem, although most people don't resort to violence to protest about something, but do it peacefully... And then there actually are people who travel around the globe just to have a "holiday" full of violence (e.g. because it gives them a kick). They only use some problem or injustice as pretext to incite violence (e.g. like in Northern Ireland religion has been used as pretext for violence)...
In my context it is about people who aren't "Krawalltouristen", because there is indeed a social problem and these people (who are "normal" people like you and me, not violent extremists) are protesting against the poor (economic) conditions. So perhaps "outside agitator" might not work so well to make that distinction clear, because that term to me has a more positive notion. What do you think?
Chat:     
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2017-12-05, 16:37  Spam?  
 #883347
Hmm, not sure I understand what you're after. "Outside agitator" originated as a Jim Crow term in the U.S. South. It infered that everyone in a state / city / town / village lived in blissful happiness until people from the outside came down and stirred them up. So there's nothing positive about "outside agitators," just as there's nothing positive (I think, anyway--am I wrong?) about Krawalltouristen.

Thinking about 'riot tourists' some more: I believe the native English reader would focus on 'tourist' first and come to the conclusion that these are people who like to travel in comfort and while doing so, like to riot once in a while. This wouldn't make much sense to those readers. Again, I might misunderstand Krawalltouristen. It sounds like a word coined by one of those clever and witty SPIEGEL Online writers. The reason it's not in a dictionary is probably because the people who compile dictionaries think it will fade away or already has faded away.
Antwort: 
There are also travelling rioters  #883352
von Proteus-, 2017-12-05, 17:04  Spam?  194.96.52....
Antwort: 
von MichaelK (US), 2017-12-05, 19:02  Spam?  
 #883365
Yes, I believe "travelling rioters" would get the idea of 'rioters who travel to riots' across much better than anything with the benign 'tourist.'
Antwort: 
von philistine (DE/ZA), 2017-12-07, 10:33  Spam?  
 #883449
Thanks for your further explanations and suggestions!
What I meant with “outside agitator” being more positive is that (at least in my understanding) and agitator is first and foremost someone who only talks (provokes) people into doing something, but that this is not necessarily linked to violence, whereas the aim of Krawalltouristen is violence…
I was surprised not to find the word Krawalltouristen in most dictionaries, because it is frequently used in German (and more than some other words in the dictionaries). I think travelling rioters captures the meaning pretty well, although it also reminds me a little bit of the term travellers (i.e. vagrant peoples) which would create an undesired negative connotation adding to existing stereotypes…
Anyway, I now googled all terms and just want to point out...
» vollständigen Text anzeigen
Frage:
werblich? » antworten
von dhk (DE), 2017-12-05, 09:39  Spam?  
ICh gebe ja zu, dass es ein schreckliches Wort ist, dies "werblich", aber es wird verwendet und drum kennt es auch der Duden.
Gibt es im Englschen ein gutes Korrelat? Und wenn ja, sollte das Wortpaar nicht aufgenommen werden?
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2017-12-05, 11:10  Spam?  
 #883309
I think it would depend on the context. Based on Linguee, translations could include:
advertising {adj}
for publicity / advertising purposes {adv}

Also based on Linguee, this appears to be a word that often doesn't translate well as an adjective/adverb and further rephrasing often seems necessary.
Antwort: 
LINX    https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/german-english/werblich  #883310
von Proteus-, 2017-12-05, 11:14  Spam?  194.96.52....
Chat:     
Thank you both  #883311
von dhk (DE), 2017-12-05, 11:17  Spam?  
I take it there's no 1-2-1 correlate to "werblich" in English.

Which is understandable from a "linguistic hygiene" point of view ;-)
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2017-12-05, 12:05  Spam?  
 #883316
I'll enter a couple in the dict so we have something there. I think it's often the case that there's no precise match between English and German words.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2017-12-05, 12:11  Spam?  
 #883317
I've entered "advertising" and "promotional" as adjectives.
I'm not sure about Collins's "in advertising terms", and people often don't like accepting Linguee as a source, so I thought I'd try and get agreement here on whether "for advertising purposes" is an acceptable translation when "werblich" is used as an adverb. Examples from Linguee include:
Und falls Ihre Ideen der absolute Hammer sind und unsere Jury sie gerne werblich nutzen würde, erhalten Sie zusätzlich...
And if your ideas are just about the limit and our jury would like to use them for advertising purposes you will get ...

Bilder aus den Semestern können für die Darstellung der Von Erlenbach Kunstschule werblich verwendet werden.
Images of the courses for the representation of the Von Erlenbach Kunstschule may be used for publicity purposes.
(Publicity effectively means "advertising" here.)
Antwort: 
von ddr (AT), 2017-12-05, 12:20  Spam?  
 #883319
Should it not be sth. like:
Images of (?) the courses may be used for the representation of the ... Kunstschule for  publicity purposes?
or:
Work produced (by students) during courses ...?
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2017-12-05, 12:42  Spam?  
 #883322
4;ddr, it's not a great translation overall, but "for advertising purposes" nevertheless seems right to me.
The question for me is whether we can get agreement that "for advertising purposes" is a frequent enough translation of "werblich" as an adverb to be worth putting in the dict.
Antwort: 
If I may...  #883325
von dhk (DE), 2017-12-05, 12:49  Spam?  
The most frequent occurrences of "werblich", which is infrequently used to begin with, are in
- werbliche Aktivitäten
- werbliche Zwecke
and
- werbliche Maßnahmen

For these, "advertising" and "promotional" seem to be sufficient.
Every now and then you will find "werbliche Nutzung" for which "for advertising purposes" might be more appropriate. I'm not sure it's frequent enough, but Google gives quite a few results: Google: "werbliche Nutzung"
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2017-12-05, 13:00  Spam?  
 #883328
Having googled "werblich", I've also found "Rückseite werblich nutzbar", which I would translate as "back can be used for advertising", so I guess "for advertising" also works - in fact "for advertising" would also work in the two examples with "for advertising purposes", perhaps that would be the better translation.
4;dhk, I understand that it's not often used as an adverb, but to be honest, in terms of dictionary entries, that's not really an issue. The issue is if it's correct to use it like this and also whether use in this manner is sufficiently infrequent that we should label it [selten]. People often seem to like to use unusual words in texts they send for translation.
Antwort: 
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2017-12-05, 20:54  Spam?  
 #883344
For AE, 'commercial / commercially' would work pretty well in many cases, especially so where these words would stand in contrast to non-profit or public entities.
Frage:
Lost English verbs reclaimed? » antworten
von Proteus-, 2017-12-04, 22:50  Spam?  194.96.50....
Roof-lorn.+ Beautiful. It’s a shame we’re lorn-lorn.+ Perhaps lorn is ripe for a comeback: a tree-lorn road, a star-lorn sky, a peace-lorn world, a fact-lorn culture? And while we’re at it, why not revive the for- prefix – like for-twittered, or broken to pieces by social media?
https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2017/11/28/what-in-the-word-for...
Chat:     
von Windfall (GB), 2017-12-05, 11:32  Spam?  
 #883312
It wasn't until I got to this paragraph that the link with verlieren/verloren suddenly hit me:
Along with more familiar verbs like choose and freeze, forléosan followed a particular strong verb pattern, called Class II. Its past tense was forléas, e.g., He forléas his life in the fight – if you’ll permit some serious code-switching. Its past participle was forloren – his life was forloren in the fight. Middle English rendered them into forlese and forlorn.
Chat:     
The genetic proximity between English and German is:  30,8  #883350
von Proteus-, 2017-12-05, 17:01  Spam?  194.96.52....
These langages are closely related!

http://www.elinguistics.net/Compare_Languages.aspx?Language1=Englis...

Please click on English to German details
Chat:     
Interesting  #883367
von logger (US), 2017-12-05, 22:03  Spam?  
Many words are similar, especially basic ones like Wasser/water, Ohr/ear, but how come English has genderless nouns?  And how come sentence structure is so different?  I am sure linguists know the answers.  What are they?
Antwort: 
von aphoenix (US), 2017-12-06, 00:46  Spam?  
 #883370
Per Wikipedia, "A system of grammatical gender, whereby every noun was treated as either masculine, feminine or neuter, existed in Old English, but fell out of use during the Middle English period."  

Today only nouns and pronouns referring to persons or animals generally have genders in English.  Examples include he / she, him / her, actor / actress, duke / duchess, headmaster / headmistress, hero / heroine, host / hostess, landlord / landlady, prince / princess, steward / stewardess, waiter / waitress, widow / widower.  However, ships, airplanes, and spaceships have historically been referred to as "she" and "her".  For more lists, see e.g. http://speakspeak.com/resources/vocabulary-elementary-pre-intermedi...   https://www.englishclub.com/vocabulary/male-female.htm...
» vollständigen Text anzeigen
Chat:     
genetic proximity  #883372
von aphoenix (US), 2017-12-06, 00:58  Spam?  
For comparison:
English, Danish 20.6
German, Danish 38.2
English, French 48.7
German, French 64.3
English, ancient Greek 70.7
German, ancient Greek 81.3
http://www.elinguistics.net/Compare_Languages.aspx?Language1=Englis...
Frage:
FÜr neuen Auszubildenden » antworten
von Mahmoud-zaki (UN), 2017-12-04, 20:23  Spam?  
Thanks in advance for your reply, I am confused about why it is neuen, I think it should be neue. And Auszublidende not Auszublidenden.
Antwort: 
von ddr (AT), Last modified: 2017-12-05, 03:22  Spam?  
 #883290
Da das ja kein ganzer Satz ist, kann man das schwer erklären. Für verlangt jedenfalls den Akkusativ.
Für den / einen neuen Auszubildenden = Akk.
Für die / eine Auszubildende = Akk. (feminin)
Für neue Auszubildende = Plural Akk.
Antwort: 
Ü  #883293
von Mahmoud-zaki (UN), 2017-12-04, 20:52  Spam?  
Danke für ihre Antwort, der ganz Satz ist: «Gleich am Morgen haltet der Chef eine Ansprache für alle neuen Auszubildenden» ich glaube das ist prular oder?
Antwort: 
von timfefe (AU/AT), 2017-12-04, 21:05  Spam?  
 #883294
Yes, this is plural.
The word "alle" in your sentence changes the direct object (i.e. the new apprentices) from indefinite to definite.
Plural, indefinite: ... für neue Auszubildende.
Plural, definite: ... für die neuen Auszubildenden.
Plural, definite: ... für alle neuen Auszubildenden.

BTW: der Chef hält ...
Chat:     
von timfefe (AU/AT), 2017-12-04, 21:54  Spam?  
 #883295
Nachtrag:
It has occurred to me that my mentioning of "direct object" above might lead you astray. If those new apprentices were in nominative rather than accusative, the situation would be exactly the same.
Nominative, plural, indefinite: Neue Auszubildende ...
Nominative, plural, definite: Die neuen Auszubildenden ...
Nominative, plural, definite: Alle neuen Auszubildenden ...
Antwort: 
von Mahmoud-zaki (UN), 2017-12-04, 22:15  Spam?  
 #883297
Are words like (Erwachsene jugndliche auszubildende) working like adjectives?
Antwort: 
von timfefe (AU/AT), 2017-12-04, 23:15  Spam?  
 #883300
"erwachsen", "jugendlich" are adjectives. The German language has a concept called "substantiviertes Adjektiv", an adjective-used-as-a-noun. So these adjectives as nouns:
Plural, nominative or accusative, indefinite: Erwachsene, Jugendliche.
For example:
zwei Erwachsene, drei Jugendliche, vier Auszubildende.
Plural, nominative or accusative, definite: die Erwachsenen, die Jugendlichen, die Auszubildenden.
Replacing "die" by "alle":
alle Erwachsenen, alle Jugendlichen, alle Auszubildenden.
Antwort: 
Thanks so much  #883301
von Mahmoud-zaki (UN), 2017-12-04, 23:32  Spam?  
I got it now
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