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English-German Translation of
Is proven to have

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Frage:
"Is proven to have failed" or "Has been proven to have failed"  
von Ptr (BE/CH), 2010-11-30, 21:49  like dislike  Spam?  
Good evening! I have a question. I just watched an interview on TV and the interviewee said that "the current bonus system for banks is proven to have failed". It's not a big deal, but shouldn't he have said "has been proven to have failed"? Is there a difference between the two? If yes, what is the difference and when do you use which? Thank you for your help.
Antwort: 
passive construction  #558754
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2010-11-30, 22:01  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.160....
You'll have to wait for one of our grammar experts for a detailed description but this is in the same vein as:
is said to have (been)
is taken to have
(es wurde - als gescheitert belegt / davon gesagt / davon behauptet)
Antwort: 
In this case proven is an adjective and not a past participle  #558756
von the-wrecker (DE), Last modified: 2010-11-30, 22:55  like dislike  Spam?  
proven is used in the predicative way.
If you have some German knowledge: Nicht:Es wird bewiesen/Es wird nachgewiesen, daß..
                                                            sondern:Es ist bewiesen/ Es ist nachgewiesen, daß...
Antwort: 
von wandle (GB), 2010-11-30, 22:43  like dislike  Spam?  
 #558757
The rule I follow is:
(a) 'Proved' is the past tense (active) and also the passive participle form. Thus:
    'He proved it.' 'It was proved.'  'That has proved to be a success.'  'That has been proved to be a success.'
(b) 'Proven' is the adjective meaning 'having been proved'. Thus:
    'It is a proven fact that...'  The court in Edinburgh returned a verdict of 'Not proven'.
In your example, "the current bonus system for banks is proven to have failed" is correct, using 'proven' as an adjective.  The alternative would be "the current bonus system for banks has been proved to have failed".

Nevertheless, some people use 'proven' instead of 'proved' for the passive participle, as you have suggested above. That seems to me to be mistaken (another adjective).
Antwort: 
US English has two past participles - proved or prov·en  #558777
von Proteus, 2010-12-01, 00:09  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.81....

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