Alle Sprachen    |   EN   SV   IS   RU   RO   IT   FR   PT   HU   NL   SK   LA   FI   ES   BG   HR   NO   CS   DA   TR   PL   SR   EO   EL   |   SK   FR   HU   PL   NL   SQ   RU   ES   NO   SV   IS   IT   CS   DA   PT   FI   HR   BG   RO   |   more ...

Deutsch-Englisch-Wörterbuch

Online-Wörterbuch Englisch-Deutsch: Begriff hier eingeben!
  äöüß...
  Optionen | Tipps | FAQ | Abkürzungen | Desktop

LoginRegistrieren
Home|About/Extras|Vokabeltrainer|Fachgebiete|Benutzer|Forum|Mitmachen!
Übersetzungsforum Deutsch-Englisch
 tangible and intangible information »
« relationship: Beziehungen oder Verhältnisse?    

English-German Translation Forum

« zurück | Antworten aus- oder einblenden | Diskussion beobachten
Frage:
aus dem Leipziger Gespräch von 1631  
von PeterVS (UN), 2011-01-28, 03:03  like dislike  Spam?  
In Texten des Leipzigen Gespräches von 1631 zwischen Lutheranen und Reformierten Theologen steht dieser Satz - "...ist man auf beiden Theilen darin einig, daß der Herr Christus nicht schon im Mutterleibe, sondern allererst den viezigsten Tag nach seiner Auferstehung gen Himmel gefahren sei..." Das liest auf English, "that the Lord Christ did not already in the womb, but only on the fortieth day after his resurrection, ascend to heaven."  Wäre es möglich daß in dieseim Kontext, "Mutterleibe" als "tomb" übersetzt werden soll? Daß Christus im "womb" Aufgefaren zum Himmel ist macht keinen Sinn.
Im voraus vielen Dank
PeterVS
Antwort: 
D: nicht schon = erst später  #573590
von Bella-Brera (AT), 2011-01-28, 03:15  like dislike  Spam?  
... nicht schon im Mutterleibe, sondern allererst den viezigsten Tag nach seiner Auferstehung gen Himmel gefahren sei..
Antwort: 
"....not already in the womb, but..." is correct.  #573591
von anonymous, 2011-01-28, 03:45  like dislike  Spam?  108.26.81...
It refers to the dual nature of Christ as fully God and fully human, which was a fiercely debated topic at the time. If you accept that dual nature, you accept that Christ became both God and human at the moment of his conception and not just after his ascension following his (human) death. This union of Christ's divinity and humanity is also known as the "hypostatic union."
Wikipedia(EN): Hypostatic_union
First paragraph:
http://www.gci.org/Jesus/dualnature
Antwort: 
I should say:  #573592
von anonymous, 2011-01-28, 03:55  like dislike  Spam?  108.26.81...
"...became both God and human at the moment of his conception and therefore was already God before his ascension following his human death."
Because Christ did not exist before his conception, it follows that his God-nature ascended to heaven while he was in the womb.
Antwort: 
Christus vor, während und nach seiner leiblichen Gestalt  #573595
von climatepatrol (CH), Last modified: 2011-01-29, 03:58  like dislike  Spam?  
Ich weiß nicht, ob dies für die Übersetzung hilfreich ist, aber vielleicht findest Du etwas Nützliches in dem unten stehenden Querverweis:
Google: daß der Herr Christus nicht schon im Mutterleibe

to anonymus:
re: "Because Christ did not exist before his conception, it follows that his God-nature ascended to heaven while he was in the womb."
Are you sure about this?
Antwort: 
Ich stimme diesem zu: "....not already in the womb, but..." is correct  #573598
von romy (CZ/GB), 2011-01-28, 07:44  like dislike  Spam?  
PeterVS, es ist nicht Aufgabe des Übersetzers, den Hintergrund und die wahrscheinliche Bedeutung eines solchen Ausspruchs zu interpretieren und zu erläutern. Schreib es einfach so hin, wie es da steht, und überlasse die Diskussionen darüber den Philosophen und Theologen. Jede Deutung deinerseits (wie etwa "wurde nicht schon im Mutterleib oder womöglich schon im Moment der Zeugung, sondern erst durch seine Himmelfahrt zu einem Gott") würde die ursprüngliche Aussage verfälschen.
Chat:     
von wandle (GB), Last modified: 2011-01-28, 09:05  like dislike  Spam?  
 #573612
An interesting sidelight on the tangles arising from the doctrine of the Trinity, and the 'heresies' it gave birth to. The fact that Islam cuts out all these problems by having a single God, with various human prophets, enables it to appeal much more easily to the majority who have no desire to enter into such complexilties.  Islam is thus an easier religion to be converted to, which means in the long run it is likely to become predominant over Christianity.
Antwort: 
But aside from the theological discussions,  #573617
von Lllama (GB/AT), 2011-01-28, 09:00  like dislike  Spam?  
did not already in the womb is not good English.

My suggestion:
that the Lord (Jesus) Christ did not ascend into Heaven from the womb, but not until/only on the fortieth day after his resurrection.
Antwort: 
von wandle (GB), 2011-01-28, 09:08  like dislike  Spam?  
 #573622
Or: '..that the Lord Christ's ascension to Heaven took place not when he was in the womb but only on the fortieth day...'
Chat:     
romy: Agree.  #573650
von anonymous, 2011-01-28, 12:15  like dislike  Spam?  108.26.81...
My 3:45 and 3:55 were not suggestions for the translation. I merely tried to tell PeterVS that im Mutterleibe...aufgefahren gen Himmel does indeed make sense, which he doubted. Can't agree to Joanne's "from the womb." It implies that Christ ascended at the moment of his birth, which is not what is written.
Antwort: 
I agree that from the womb could be considered ambiguous,  #573670
von Lllama (GB/AT), 2011-01-28, 13:47  like dislike  Spam?  
but I stand by the fact that did not already in the womb is not good English.

wandle's suggestion is more elegant and if PeterVS ever looks back here, that is what I recommend using.
Antwort: 
Joanne, agree on the English being awkward.  #573682
von anonymous, 2011-01-28, 14:34  like dislike  Spam?  108.26.81...
Perhaps the schon can be brought over in some other way. Wandle's suggestion just ignores it, which may, in fact, be the best solution.  :-)
Antwort: 
Peut-être: ... took place not as soon as he was in the womb  #573691
von Proteus, 2011-01-28, 14:55  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.87....
Chat:     
NB: nicht schon / not as soon - it takes a cunning theologian to think of such a possibility in the first place  #573694
von Proteus, 2011-01-28, 15:05  like dislike  Spam?  91.115.87....
Antwort: 
romy confirms my experience and my instinct  #573760
von PeterVS (UN), 2011-01-28, 22:27  like dislike  Spam?  
A good reminder not to second guess authors and texts.  Suggestions from Joanne, wandle, and anonymous to improve the English are well taken.
Antwort: 
Basic issue of the Trinity  #573882
von PeterVS (UN), 2011-01-29, 17:06  like dislike  Spam?  
wandle raises the vital issue of the comprehensibility of the Trinity.  The Word whose incarnation we are discussing assures us that God isn't comprehensible and that what men can comprehend isn't God.  See Romans 11:33 and Job 38-40.  We can understand what God reveals of himself; and that includes the infinite, perfect love that the persons of the Trinity have among themselves, and into which God brings men who don't deserve that love.  By means of the incarnation and the atonement the Son of God dwells in his people as the Father dwells in him.  See John 17:20-26.  That's as good, just, true, and beautiful as it is far beyond any thing that you or I will grasp.
Antwort: 
von wandle (GB), Last modified: 2011-01-31, 02:06  like dislike  Spam?  
 #573938
Of course Islam, like other religions, also maintains the incomprehensibility of God, while at the same time professing to make clear his wishes.  It simply puts fewer obstacles in the path of belief, which -- as its founders no doubt intended -- improves its prospects of expansion.  I prefer Wittgenstein's „Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.“  Edit: quotation corrected.
Antwort: 
Lost in Translation but Grasped in Countless Hearts  #573941
von climatepatrol (CH), Last modified: 2011-01-30, 04:12  like dislike  Spam?  
What no human being, scholars, simple people alike, can comprehend, God reveals himself and puts 100% of his divine nature into his son. He reveals himself to the lowly.  That's why so many children can understand who is the Christ whereas numerous linguists and theologians can't.

4;PeterVS
I agree with you that what men can comprehend isn't God, and yet those who have been touched by the love of God, can't be quiet. They must speak about Him. His love is overflowing in their hearts. It's a mystery.

4; wandle
Du hast recht, ich habe den Mund zu voll genommen. Nachträglich habe ich große Teile meines Kommentars gelöscht. Sie sprengen den Rahmen dieses Forums.

Optional: Login | Registrieren 
  Frage beantworten oder Kommentar hinzufügen
Please log in to post an answer to this thread - or post a new question.
nach oben | home© 2002 - 2019 Paul Hemetsberger | Impressum / Datenschutz
Dieses Deutsch-Englisch-Wörterbuch basiert auf der Idee der freien Weitergabe von Wissen. Mehr Informationen!
Enthält Übersetzungen von der TU Chemnitz sowie aus Mr Honey's Business Dictionary (Englisch/Deutsch). Vielen Dank dafür!
Links auf dieses Wörterbuch oder einzelne Übersetzungen sind herzlich willkommen! Fragen und Antworten