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Frage:
[SPAM] 
von bkytransl (DE/BG), 2011-05-06, 13:41  like dislike  
Antwort: 
Zugmaschine?   #595458
von Baccalaureus (DE), 2011-05-06, 13:44  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
Zugmaschine wäre natürlich auch gut  #595459
von bkytransl (DE/BG), 2011-05-06, 13:47  like dislike  Spam?  
Aber ist dem vorher verwendeten Begriff Lastkraftwagen zu unähnlich.

Die Frage ist eigentlich, kann man einen Gabelstapler auch im weitesten Sinne als Lastkraftwagen bezeichnen? Immerhin hat er ja einen Motor und trägt Lasten.

Wenn das möglich wäre, dann wäre das Problem gelöst, denn ich muss die gleichen oder zumindest ähnliche Ausdrücke wie in den Ansprüchen verwenden.
Antwort: 
Nein, ein Lastkraftwagen ist eindeutig ein stark motorisiertes, schweres Straßenfahrzeug mit Ladefläche  #595460
von Baccalaureus (DE), 2011-05-06, 14:00  like dislike  Spam?  
"Zugmaschine" ist eigentlich auch schon sehr eindeutig, könnte aber gerade noch durchgehen. Ein Gabelstapler ist ein Gabelstapler, da beißt die Maus keinen Faden ab.
Antwort: 
Your other question - Und kann Truck allein überhaupt Gabelstapler heißen?  #595461
von Lllama (GB/AT), 2011-05-06, 14:00  like dislike  Spam?  
A Gabelstapler is a fork-lift truck (as you know). I would normally shorten that to fork-lift, but, in context, I would have no objection to truck.
Antwort: 
Joanne - the problem was, from the context it was not visible that it was a fork-lift truck  #595468
von bkytransl (DE/BG), 2011-05-06, 14:41  like dislike  Spam?  
And the correct translation of that one in German is this one:

http://de.pons.eu/dict/search/results/?q=truck&in=&kbd=en-g...

There is not even an option to think that it might be a fork-lift truck, but which is now written as this in the description of the patent. Since the wording has to be consistent, I have a big problem now and don't know how to resolve it.
Antwort: 
Technically, the "truck" suffix means powered forklift as opposed to a human-powered one.  #595469
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2011-05-06, 14:56  like dislike  Spam?  
But once it has been established that the text is about a powered forklift (diesel, gasoline, liquid gas, electric), the term is often shortened to "forklift" for the rest of the text. As Bacca said, "truck" alone will not work. Could you not make a global change from "truck" to "forklift" except for the first mention?
There's an outside chance that "forklift truck" stands for a truck in the sense of Lastkraftwagen with a forklift attachment for self-loading and -unloading. But the context should tell you immediately if that's the case or not.
Antwort: 
MichaelK - that is what I wanted to know, but they used truck alone, and the context did not tell anything specific  #595471
von bkytransl (DE/BG), Last modified: 2011-05-06, 14:59  like dislike  Spam?  
So this is the fault of the author of the text.

The trucks in the text are now defined as this:

counterweight truck, side loading truck, container truck or similar vehicle for handling goods.
Antwort: 
bkytransl: All three trucks you listed do exist in the form of "forklift trucks."  #595477
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2011-05-06, 15:27  like dislike  Spam?  
I'm almost certain that they are, in fact, forklifts. They are not Lastkraftwagen because those don't handle goods, but transport them.
Antwort: 
I would not perpetuate error for the sake of consistency  #595481
von Saluton1 (US), 2011-05-06, 15:13  like dislike  Spam?  
Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
Antwort: 
bkytransl  #595486
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2011-05-06, 15:29  like dislike  Spam?  206.57.78...
Agree with MichaelK's analysis up to one point:  If you are dealing with equipment manufacturers they sometimes also abbreviate "hand truck" to truck.
Google: hand truck
The term "goods handling" is indeed what identifies the type here.
Google: truck "goods handling"
Antwort: 
A generic term is Flurförderzeuge.  #595487
von Saluton1 (US), 2011-05-06, 15:33  like dislike  Spam?  
Truck has many meanings. You can't be blamed for choosing the wrong one without proper context. Truck also exists as hand truck, a contraption to move goods by pushing. To make matters worse, truck is also the bottom part of railroad cars (Drehgestell).

I would explain the situation to the client and go with the latest insights.
Antwort: 
The basic idea of truck is Förderzeug  #595489
von Saluton1 (US), 2011-05-06, 15:41  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
Saluton1 - this is not a questions of consistency only, but of patent right  #595500
von bkytransl (DE/BG), 2011-05-06, 16:04  like dislike  Spam?  
There might be caused problems if now the same term is translated with a completely different term in German.

But as there was not the slightest hint what it might be, and I can prove that the meaning of truck is "Lastkraftwagen" in PONS, one of the most renown dictionaries, there should not be a problem.

I wrote this to the customer, but I doubt I will get a reply early enough before being almost ready with the translation.
Antwort: 
Don't try to "prove" that.  As pointed out, the word "truck" has many meanings. Forget PONS.  #595507
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2011-05-06, 16:18  like dislike  Spam?  
Lastkraftwagen is just one of many meanings. I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you insist that truck can only mean Lastkraftwagen. Isn't it clear from the context what is meant by "truck?" Sorry, trying to be helpful, really.
Antwort: 
MichaelK - it is the main meaning in which this is know here  #595511
von bkytransl (DE/BG), Last modified: 2011-05-06, 16:24  like dislike  Spam?  
And PONS here of course has a somewhat different standing than in the USA of course.

I cannot change it, the fact is, the term truck is not forklift in itself! And there was no context to see that it was a forklift, not even in the drawings.

Let me do it the other way round. The official dictionary of the European Union administration (something that counts!) has these definitions, and they clearly indicate that for "Gabelstapler" the term "truck" cannot be used standing alone:

VERKEHR, INDUSTRIE [COM] Vollständiger Eintrag
DE

Gabelstapler

EN

forklift

forklift truck


VERKEHR, Mechanische Industrie [COM] Vollständiger Eintrag
DE

Gabelauflader

Gabelstapler

EN

fork truck

pallet carrier

pallet truck

forklift truck

fork lift carrier

lift truck

fork-lift


Mechanische Industrie [COM] Vollständiger Eintrag
DE

Hubgerüst für Schlepperanbau

Gabelstapler

Hebegabel

EN

tractor fork lift

fork lift carrier

pallet truck

pallet fork

fork of the lift

pallet carrier

fork lift truck

elevating fork


INDUSTRIE, VERKEHR [COM] Vollständiger Eintrag
DE

Gabelstapler

EN

fork lift truck


Mechanische Industrie [COM] Vollständiger Eintrag
DE

Gabelstapler

EN

fork stacking machine


Technologie und technische Regelungen, Bauindustrie und öffentliches Bauwesen, VERKEHR, Gemeinschaftsorgan [Council] Vollständiger Eintrag
DE

Gabelstapler

EN

fork-lift truck


Landverkehr, Mechanische Industrie, VERKEHR [COM] Vollständiger Eintrag
DE

Gabelstapler

EN

counterbalanced truck
Antwort: 
von uffie (GH/KI), Last modified: 2011-05-06, 16:50  like dislike  Spam?  
 #595516
As you know patent translations have to be absolutely accurate, otherwise it can cost your client a lot of money. I'd go back to the client and explain the ambiguity of the original text (why didn't they give you all of it in the first place?) and tell them the translation already finished will have to be edited. Can't see any way round that. They might pay you for this, but I doubt it.
Antwort: 
bkytransl  #595519
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2011-05-06, 16:56  like dislike  Spam?  206.57.78...
Using "Pons" for "Fachübersetzung" level translations is highly inadvisable.  I don't think even their creators intended it for that purpose.  (Bacca has a very nice phrase for his opinion on PONS.)  It may make an adequate student's dictionary.  But even for that I would definitely not recommend it because it has some snafus in it, doesn't sufficiently distinguish common expressions from unusual terms and has some decidedly Deunglish translation terms in it.
If a company gives you a text to translate without sufficient background, context or indication you have to translate according to your "best guess" as to the meaning of terms.  Pointing out a previous error, once you have become to realize it is the professional thing to do.  Unfortunately, since there are many layers of administration between you and the customer/user someone there might not understand.  I'd send a note explaining the "professional standard" in such a situation along with the improved version (correction).  As so often in life, doing the right thing might not be appreciated and may have some negative consequences.
Antwort: 
I already wrote to the client, and sure they will pay for it  #595526
von bkytransl (DE/BG), 2011-05-06, 17:49  like dislike  Spam?  
Also, fortunately I know them for long years and very well.

There are not many layers between me and them, because this is my only direct customer.
Chat:     
von uffie (GH/KI), 2011-05-06, 17:55  like dislike  Spam?  
 #595529
typo - I have known them for many years ;-)
Chat:     
ufriend - thanks, and: nobody is perfect  #595536
von bkytransl (DE/BG), 2011-05-06, 18:10  like dislike  Spam?  
Chat:     
quite so  #595540
von uffie (GH/KI), 2011-05-06, 18:22  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
Thank you all, and problem is now almost resolved  #595727
von bkytransl (DE/BG), 2011-05-07, 13:29  like dislike  Spam?  
Somewhere in the text it is now stated that it also applies to all other kinds of trucks, also "Lastkraftwagen" as I can see from the context now.

As to the most neutral word for "truck", might it be a good idea to take "Nutzfahrzeug"? This term describes in a general manner all kinds of vehicles used for transportation etc.
Antwort: 
[SPAM] #595772
von anonymous, 2011-05-07, 16:26  like dislike  91.19.152....

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