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'Point of Know Return' vs.  'Point of no return'  
von yanoo, 2012-01-20, 11:41  like dislike  Spam?  149.225.130...
Hallo allseits!

'Point of no Return' würde ja einleuchten.

Was aber meint die Gruppe 'Kansas' mit ihrem Titel 'Point of Know Return'?

Für hilfreichen Rat danke ich im voraus!


Songtext  #637883
von Nordic (DE), 2012-01-20, 11:47  like dislike  Spam?  
I heard the men saying something
The captains tell they pay you well
And they say they need sailing men to
Show the way and leave today
Was it you that said, "How long?"

They say the sea turns so dark that
You know it's time, you see the sign
They say the point demons guard is
An ocean grave for all the brave
Was it you that said, "How long, how long
How long to the point of know return?"

Your father, he said he needs you
Your mother, she said she loves you
Your brothers, they echo the words
"How far to the point of know return?"
"Well, how long?"

Today I found a message floating
In the sea from you to me
You wrote that when you could see it
You cried with fear, the point was near
Was it you that said
"How long to the point of know return?"

Ich denke, es ist als Metapher gemeint und ergibt sich aus dem Songtext
'Point of Know Return'   vs.  'Point of no Return'   #637885
von yanoo, 2012-01-20, 11:55  like dislike  Spam?  149.225.130...
Hallo Nordic,

danke für deine rasche Antwort.

Jau, genau um den Text geht es.

Wie würdest du denn die Phrase

Was it you that said, "How long, how long
How long to the point of know return?"

dann übersetzen/verstehen?
Der Punkt an dem man weiß, dass man umkehren muss  #637886
von Nordic (DE), 2012-01-20, 12:01  like dislike  Spam?  
... der Punkt, an dem man weiß, dass man umkehren muss ...  #637888
von yanoo, 2012-01-20, 12:17  like dislike  Spam?  149.225.130...
... hm ... eine Art doppeldeutiges/tiefsinnigeres Wortspiel?!

Das könnte hinkommen, zumal damit 'exakt' der (noch richtige) Zeitpunkt vor dem 'point of no return'
gemeint wäre.

Etwas freier übersetzt also: 'der Punkt, an dem es (höchste) Zeit wird, umzukehren'
von wandle (GB), 2012-01-20, 12:28  like dislike  Spam?  
I don't think 'point of know return' has any meaning.
There is nothing apparent in the text to show that the writer meant anything different from 'point of no return'.
Why then say 'know return'?
Perhaps this was how the writer, when a child, thought it should be spelled. Now, in writing the song, he or she wants to put in that which carries the associations of childhood.
Or they just like playing with words - another album was called Leftoverture.  #637891
von Lllama (GB/AT), 2012-01-20, 12:34  like dislike  Spam?  
wandle (GB), today, 12:28  #637894
von yahoo, 2012-01-20, 12:50  like dislike  Spam?  149.225.130...
... perhaps to express a kind of childlike fear?
Joanne (GB/AT), today, 12:34  #637897
von yahoo, 2012-01-20, 12:58  like dislike  Spam?  149.225.130...
... I think, there 'must' be something like a deeper sense in play on words like this ... especially in (poetical) lyrics ...?!
von wandle (GB), 2012-01-20, 13:01  like dislike  Spam?  
4; yahoo 12:50;
I don't think there is any meaning (other than 'point of no return') which can come across to other people than the writer(s). It is something personal, or else nonsense, or both.
Agree with wandle's "no meaning."  #637899
von MichaelK (US), 2012-01-20, 13:02  like dislike  Spam?  
Songtexts are notoriously inaccurate, with some only transcriptions of what someone thought they heard. The spell checker passes "know" with flying colors, and there you are.
Now, now ...  #637902
von Lisa4dict (US), 2012-01-20, 14:25  like dislike  Spam?  
Not all lyrics are written by knuckleheads.  
Kansas is actually one of the bands usually criticized for having had a too esoteric approach to song writing (... not to mention a hefty dose of religion in their later works.)  I'm quite certain it wasn't a typo.  They have quite a few word games in their various songs.  AFAIK there are two basic lines explored here.  On the surface it's about Columbus' trip to the "New World." But this is from a phase when they wrote few straightforward lyrics.  The deeper meaning is open to debate and different sources cite different versions.  Among them typical candidates that get identified in every rock lyric - drugs, depression, separation anxiety - yada, yada.  But those are probably just the simplistic vanilla comments and about as far from the truth as one can get.
Well, you have a point, Lisa.  #637907
von MichaelK (US), 2012-01-20, 14:41  like dislike  Spam?  
Never heard of the "Kansas" music group before, so my comment is very general.
... and 'now' a-'no'-ther case of 'know': 'There's Know Place Like Home'   #637911
von yanoo, 2012-01-20, 14:59  like dislike  Spam?  149.225.130...
'There's Know Place Like Home' (Live album by Kansas, 2009)

... oh no, no ... ,-)

KANSAS scheint tatsächlich ein Faible für solche Wortspiele zu haben – es muss also irgendeinen 'tieferen' Sinn geben.

Vielleicht lässt sich der ja doch noch herausfinden ...?

Vielen Dank an alle bisherigen und neu hinzukommenden 'Detektive'!


I stand corrected. The music group "Kansas" misspells 'no' knowingly. :-)  #637913
von MichaelK (US), 2012-01-20, 15:10  like dislike  Spam?  
... hooo nose ...?!  ,-)  #637914
von yanoo, 2012-01-20, 15:14  like dislike  Spam?  149.225.130...

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