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von Catesse (AU), 2013-04-01, 05:23  like dislike  Spam?  
Back to the tags problem. This comes from the Polish sites, but it could happen anywhere.
Immediate reference is to the word "skrzydło", which almost always translates as "wing / Flügel", so it would need more than three tags. Bird, insect, aeroplane, building, political party, and others. But it does not mean a "Flügel (grand piano)", and there may be cases where they do not correspond in English.
Even if we were tagging things as "general", this would not quite cover the situation, because there is not a 100% correspondence.
Any practical suggestions?
von Heflamoke (DE/RS), 2013-04-01, 05:36  like dislike  Spam?  
Such common words don't need any subjects in my opinion. If you want to emphasize that it can be translated in many diff. ways there is still the possibility to make example entries, may it be be noun + adjective, a sentence, idioma etc. That's atleast how I do it if there is need to explain it further or clarify things beyond subjects, disamb., ling. tags.

I also don't think we should bother with too many details afterall. We can't take away the last bit of own consideration of the user. I'd pick the most common translations out of this list and make an example or leave it as it is.
if Subjects don't cover the situation ---> Erklärung in square brackets direkt hinter das Wort  #701387
von parker11 (DE), Last modified: 2013-04-01, 05:36  like dislike  Spam?  
If it's just the grand piano ...  #701389
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2013-04-01, 05:45  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.160....
I'd put
Flügel  [nicht Konzertflügel]
If there is a list of things that don't match it gets difficult.  Try defining the things it is used in groups e.g.
Fügel [zum fliegen, Gebäudeteil, Partei]
I wouldn't use subjects to disambiguate usage here.
Thanks  #701395
von Catesse (AU), 2013-04-01, 06:10  like dislike  Spam?  
Wow! You folk are up early today. I'll wait and see what else turns up here. In the mean time:
4; Hef: the pons layout does this well, but it does not fit into the dict format. I don't like entering too many variants on the Polish sites, because it is so difficult to get anything verified. I work from about five dictionaries on these entries, but the problem is the dict format.
4; parker, Lisa: I had considered the [ ] option, and I might update to include this, which is a problem mainly on DE-PL, not EN-PL. Would you capitalise, as [NICHT Flügel]? I also thought of adding how it IS used, but the list got a bit too long, so I abandoned it.
Another problem is my inadequate Polish, and my inability to find, so far, the correct word for a "wing", referring to a certain number of aircraft in a tactical group. I would bet that it is neither "Flügel" nor "skrzydło". I wish I had not started this entry at all, but the basic dilemma of how to handle these entries would remain anyway.
Is this any help?  #701399
von Lisa4dict (US), 2013-04-01, 06:39  like dislike  Spam?  
Lisa  #701402
von Catesse (AU), 2013-04-01, 07:17  like dislike  Spam?  
Thanks. It is great on naval and army organisations; I cannot identify air force quickly. Maybe that is just attached to the army. I have added it to my favourites and will check it out at leisure. (With the help of the automatic translators of ill repute, and perhaps of a military history forum to which I contribute occasionally.)
von ddr (AT), 2013-04-01, 10:29  like dislike  Spam?  
Ich löse dieses Problem mit mehr als drei subjects manchmal auch so, dass ich die drei wichtigsten Bedeutungen via subjects markiere und die anderen mit [auch ...] in Klammer dazuschreibe.
Aber wenn alles passt, außer dem (Konzert)-Flügel, würde ich nur sicherstellen, dass dieser Flügel auch eingegeben ist, mit [mus.] und disamb. Ich glaube das reicht dann schon.
Short definitions or other usage-hints (i.e. "tags") should be preferred as a means of disambiguation  #701416
von tomaquinaten (US/DE), Last modified: 2013-04-01, 18:19  like dislike  Spam?  
As i pointed out in the thread I started on Saturday [, the Subject-Areas*, which appear as grey flags on the left side of a translation pair in a search-result list+ are very helpful for giving general orientation for someone looking for vocabulary belonging to a specific field of interest, e.g. for creating a personal word-list, but they are less helpful as an instrument of disambiguation, especially when, as is often the case, several subjects are assigned. For this reason, the clearest way to disambiguate an entry* is to place a bracketed definition, example or specific subject-field immediately behind the term needing disambiguation. When a bracketed "subject-field"-tag is used, this may appear redundant, if it replicates the name of a Subject-Area already given in the grey flag, but this apparent redundancy is justified by the fact that the the two methods have different functions: the Subject-Areas (and the corresponding flags) are best suited to classifying, i.e. bringing together, entries belonging to a specific field of interest; the bracketed information, by contrast, is better suited to precising the intended meaning of the term and distinguishing it from other possible meanings, i.e. disambiguating it. Such explanations help the user better to understand and apply the proposed translation.
What I have done  #701431
von Catesse (AU), 2013-04-01, 12:18  like dislike  Spam?  
Since some of the minor sites are in dire straits, I have in this case kept it as simple as possible.
I updated the DE to "Flügel [nicht Klavier]". I think that this is about as much as other contributors could cope with. If anyone miraculously comes along and improves this, I shall humbly agree.
Well, a "Flügel" is never a "Klavier", even if it's the musical instrument;-) (but I know what you mean)  #701440
von parker11 (DE), 2013-04-01, 14:17  like dislike  Spam?  
Das ist aber eine strenge Unterscheidung!  #701444
von ddr (AT), 2013-04-01, 14:41  like dislike  Spam?  
Rein technisch wirst du wohl recht haben, aber Konzerte für Klavier und Orchester werden meistens auf Konzertflügeln gespielt, und niemand geht in die Flügelstunde, auch wenn der Klavierlehrer einen Stutzflügel haben sollte.:))
S. Duden Def. Klavier:  #701510
von rabend (DE/FR), Last modified: 2013-04-01, 20:37  like dislike  Spam?
Musikinstrument mit Tasten, mit denen die senkrecht zur Tastatur gespannten Saiten über eine Mechanik mittels mit Filz überzogener Hämmerchen angeschlagen werden.
[Hervorhebung von mir.]

Beim "Flügel" statt [Klavier] besser die Disambig. [Konzertflügel] oder [Tasteninstrument]
Tasteninstrument  #701525
von ddr (AT), 2013-04-01, 22:23  like dislike  Spam?  
Updated  #701558
von Catesse (AU), 2013-04-02, 06:01  like dislike  Spam?  
OK. It is updated to [nicht Konzertflügel]. Nobody had voted on it, so no problems. (I should be surprised like; I wouldn't be holding my breath.) Thanks to all.

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