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 We will never spy on our citizens! »
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We will never spy on our citizens!  
von Jim46 (US), 2013-06-13, 20:30  like dislike  Spam?  
Obama at his evil best.  Read #2, following the introductory paragraph.
More totalitarian tendencies to turn your stomach  #711614
von WingDing (US), 2013-06-13, 21:45  like dislike  Spam?  
Do you suppose...  #711615
von Jim46 (US), 2013-06-13, 22:10  like dislike  Spam?  
that they are monitoring the forum for potential "terrorists"?   :-)
von Heflamoke (DE/RS), 2013-06-14, 00:26  like dislike  Spam?  
I think it's cool. Whenever my hard drive crashs, I can just mail the NSA for backup.  I mean microsoft has the same information for almost 2 decades now, but Mr. Gates is so greedy.
Pathway to shadows  #711624
von Saluton1 (US), Last modified: 2013-06-14, 05:35  like dislike  Spam?  
The gov has detailed info on everyone, except illegals. They live in the shadows. Rush wants a pathway to the shadows to escape surveillance.
If those spied upon do not energetically oppose such state practices, they will get worse and worse. Mere protests won't do anywhere in the world.  #711630
von Proteus-, 2013-06-14, 01:57  like dislike  Spam?  178.190.226....
If you, too, would like to help 29 yr old Edward Snowden, please sign the petition below.  #711634
von romy (CZ/GB), 2013-06-14, 03:37  like dislike  Spam?
And I post this happily, taking the risk to be incarcerated, raped, force-fed, and tortured for it at Guantanamo Bay when I travel to the US the next time, dear Mr. President!
Done!  #711635
von Jim46 (US), Last modified: 2013-06-14, 03:59  like dislike  Spam?  
4;Romy:  We haven't yet descended to the level where you have to worry.  But we may someday.
Perhaps I'll see you there!
von Heflamoke (DE/RS), 2013-06-14, 04:01  like dislike  Spam?  
I actually have to ask you guys this. A What do you have to hide? B Do you think this has been ANY different in the past decades?

The only thing that changed is that informations travel alot faster and you have anonymous platforms to publish. There was no wikileaks in the last century and you had to find a newspaper or other media, mostly in a exile country. Nowadays you can spread it alot faster and people think its getting "worse" or this is a new level of goverment data storing. ABSOLUTLY WRONG.

Governments, secret agencies, etc are gathering and storing data of each and everyone since they have been created. It's part of their nature. The only difference between today and the past is the technology and amount of data. There is nothing anyone could do against this, especially since we willingly feed our data into the internet and social media. (Facebook, Emailaccounts and even

It all comes down to: Can I do something about it? NO, Do I have something to hide? NO, Can they spy on me and screw me over whenever they want? YES

Logic dictates to hope it doesn't happen to oneself and simply don't hide anything. This paranoia about things you can't change unless you change human mankind itself is tiring.
Heflamoke  #711644
von romy (CZ/GB), 2013-06-14, 05:17  like dislike  Spam?  
I agree that we cannot change the fact that governments and secret services spy on us, always have and always will. But a thing that we CAN change is that no person may torture another person without having to fear grave consequences for himself. We cannot punish governments but we can punish those who hit their fist into someone else's face. Doing it because it was ordered so or found acceptable by some government, is no excuse before Man and no excuse before God. And we can get justice for the victims.
From the Wall to metadata  #711646
von Saluton1 (US), 2013-06-14, 05:34  like dislike  Spam?  
von Heflamoke (DE/RS), 2013-06-14, 05:44  like dislike  Spam?  
Romy, the difference between the US and other western countries is the simple openness about such things (see guantanamo). Other countries deny they have anything similar, but I highly doubt that. The German saying (please excuse the words) nails it. "Wenn die Kacke am dampfen ist", then they will do whatever is necessary. Even if you close guantanamo and forbid such things, it will happen. Right now I am happier to "know" about guantanamo, then having it happen in a shadow system where people disappear.

If in Germany someone would be captured, alleged of something of a huge impact (terrorist attack & co), there won't be a court, human rights and what not. He will disappear in a dark room until he gives the information. To be quite frank, I'd do the same and most humans would. If I would get hold of my daugther's kidnapper, I couldn't care less about his rights. This is just me, but I know humans work like this and therefor governments do the same way. There is only one important question remaining: Who and What do you consider a threat? Unfortunatly governments answer to that question and brainwash society till everybody approves.

PS: I also know we could never agree in a logic manner, because your ideology is inspired by religion. I am only responsible to myself and the laws of the country I live in. My morality is a mix of experience, logic and pragmatism. I can imagine how hard reality can be if you have to answer to a God (no matter what religion it might be). In reality "justice" is in eye of the beholder. People that do injustice by your definition mostly act to serve justice in their way of thinking.
Nothing new  #711649
von Catesse (AU), 2013-06-14, 06:17  like dislike  Spam?  
This is nothing new. It is just a different method. During research for my writing, I have handled a lot of documents produced by the Commonwealth Security Service, Military Intelligence, Special Branch (police), ASIO. Phone taps, intercepted mail, informants, bugs - and this in free and liberal Australia. Intercepting emails, etc., is just an extra method.
I even found my own name in their records (from a time when I was about ten years old - they just came across a name in a certain context, and never followed it  up.)
When my elder son was enquiring about joining the naval reserve, we were investigated because my husband came from a Warsaw Pact country.
Point is, this does not upset me. It shows that attempts are being made to protect the country's security. Most of the information is never used; it just sits there for reference purposes in an emergency.
The complaint that these powers could be misused by a dictatorial regime is irrelevant; a new dictatorial regime would not need a pre-existing surveillance system. If one did not exist, they would very speedily and effectively set one up.
CIA please copy. I have worked on OSS and FBI records in Washington as well.
heflamoke: mit einem hast Du recht.  #711650
von parker11 (DE), Last modified: 2013-06-14, 07:22  like dislike  Spam?  
especially since we willingly feed our data into the internet and social media.
Oder andersum gefragt: wären all die Facebook-Leute nicht wahnsinnig enttäuscht, wenn ihre intimen Daten unbeachtet blieben, die sie so freudig von sich bekanntgeben? Oder sind die wirklich so blöd? Ich fürchte, oft ja. :-)
Parker  #711683
von Heflamoke (DE/RS), 2013-06-14, 11:43  like dislike  Spam?  
Ich dachte ich krieg bei dem "willingly feed" einen kleinen ironischen Unterton mit rein.
Ja natürlich, Exhibitionistengeneration². Manche Leute übertreiben es wirklich auf Facebook. Ich für meinen Teil habe auch alles öffentlich, weil ich einfach nichts zu verstecken habe. Alles was auf meinem Facebook ist, kann man auch in 2min googlen. Es gibt aber Leute, die fotografieren ihre kleine Residenz und schreiben "Bye bye Häuschen, wir sind mal 2 Wochen in der Karibik", kommen nach Hause und wundern sich, dass eingebrochen wurde.

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