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von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-07, 16:31  like dislike  Spam?  
I can't make head or tail about this:

"Hierüber wäre noch Vieles, tiefer Geschöpftes und in's wirkliche Leben Eingreifendes zu sagen: allein es ist nicht dieses Ortes und dieser Zeit"

Granted, this might not be the time and place, but still wonder what to make out of "tiefer Geschöpftes" and "Leben Eingreifendes"

Any ideas, anyone?
Geschöpft  #736874
von oldtrout, 2013-12-07, 16:37  like dislike  Spam?  79.232.66...
Geschöpft und ins wirklich Leben eingreifend:"dredged from the depths and touching on real life" - but my God, who thinks up stuff like this?!
von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-07, 16:41  like dislike  Spam?  
Thank you, oldtrout.  I would never had come to that conclusion.

The culprit is Karl Chr. F. Krause - circa 1810.

Thanks again.
urgesundes Drittes  #736877
von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-07, 16:57  like dislike  Spam?  
oldtrout, you may be able to help: I had some (many hundreds) more problems with this guy, Krause, before.

"sondern, stets Beides gleichförmig besorgend, Ein vereinlebliches, vollwesenliches, urgesundes Drittes bilde!"

I rendered the sentence thus: "but rather, always taking care of both [each set of opposites] steadily, to form One unitedly-living, complete, originally-healthy Third!"

Needless to say, that  "originally-healthy Third" makes no clear sense.  I looked high and low for a definition of "Dritte" - no luck.

Any ideas?
Antwort: schöpfen     #736878
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2013-12-07, 16:59  like dislike  Spam?  
von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-07, 17:05  like dislike  Spam?  
thank you, sunfunlili.  I did look in the, but none of the solutions in it made sense.  I am quite sure oldtrout's suggestion is perfect - it fits the context beautifully.
valandk - better you start a new question/thread, more people will see it .....  #736880
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2013-12-07, 17:06  like dislike  Spam?  
anyway - what's the  "  Beides ... " ??  so it might be the  " third(-party)" / or the "inner"sth. ??
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2013-12-07, 17:07  like dislike  Spam?  
4;valandk - it was only to give you an idea ..... ;-))
von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-07, 17:20  like dislike  Spam?  
Thank you, sunfunlil.  Any input is always welcome.

Beides - the author, before coming to the "Dritte" gives several "sets of opposites" (such as: man and woman, body and mind, nature and reason, art and science, etc.), then  he uses the singular form "bilde" for all of them. Therefore I had to add in brackets [each set of opposites] in order to make some sense out of it.
Aha ....  #736884
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2013-12-07, 17:33  like dislike  Spam?  
If I understand properly .....  the " ...   "sets of opposites" (such as: man and woman, body and mind, nature and reason, art and science, etc.) ..." are creating the "Third" - which is  "One" and this is " ...  vereinlebliches, vollwesenliches, urgesundes ..."
von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-07, 17:42  like dislike  Spam?  
I believe you hit the nail on the head. It make sense. I'll work with it.  Thanks!
von Dracs (DE), 2013-12-07, 17:58  like dislike  Spam?  
Hi valandk,
Quite a few of us have alredy seen your ongoing work. And like me others might like to participate as well. So why don't you create an Etherpad? You're probably not familiat with the idea:
Wikipedia(EN): Etherpad
I suppose your work is public since I alredy have seen the progress somewhere on the Internet. One public Etherpad service I recommend is:
Just think about it and let us know in this forum. (Big thumbs up)
von ddr (AT), 2013-12-07, 18:00  like dislike  Spam?  
tiefer Geschöpftes und ins wirkliche Leben eingreifend IMHO means: more profound and relevant for real life.

I'm not sure about dredged, that sounds like mud and mire to me, while aus der Tiefe schöpfen contains the picture of a well: The deeper the well, the clearer the water.
Anderes Bild: Suppe  #736891
von Dracs (DE), 2013-12-07, 18:11  like dislike  Spam?  
Die besten Brocken liegen unten in der Suppe. Da muss man auch "tief schöpfen". (scoop)
To all  #736892
von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-07, 18:12  like dislike  Spam?  
Dracs, ddr, Hi!

Yes, the work is public.  Yes, the "Etherpad" may save me a few years of grief, and render the work more faithful to the original.  I will look into it (Etherpad) and will keep you informed.  Now I must go = buy a Christmas tree.

Etherpad  #736933
von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-08, 02:01  like dislike  Spam?  
Dracs, I looked into the Etherpad - one major problem: it does not display a two-column document.  The two columns are necessary for having both languages side by side, so people working on it can see, line by line, both the original text and the translation. Perhaps I did not understand all the features of that system.  I will keep on looking.
tief schöpfen  #736934
von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-08, 02:22  like dislike  Spam?  
ddr, Dracs. - I have reworked the sentence, based on both your comments, and the original one from sunfunlili:

"Hierüber wäre noch Vieles, tiefer Geschöpftes und in's wirkliche Leben Eingreifendes zu sagen: allein es ist nicht dieses Ortes und dieser Zeit."

This is my version:

"There would be still much to say about this, more profound [scooped from deeper depths] and real life-effecting: but this is not the place or time for it."

I thank you all.
Hätte nie gedacht, dass sich auch heute noch Leute für den Krausismo interessieren.  #736942
von rabend (DE/FR), Last modified: 2013-12-08, 07:04  like dislike  Spam?  
Normalerweise ärgert man damit nur noch ein paar Spanischstudenten und fertig.
Sehr erstaunlich.
Die Sache mit Krause ist wohl die, dass sein geschraubtes Privatdeutsch v. a. für deutsche Muttersprachler nahezu ungenießbar ist, während sich die mehr oder weniger standardsprachlichen "Übersetzungen" dann recht leicht lesen, namentlich die spanischen. Deshalb hatte er dort auch solchen Erfolg. In Deutschland kann man in diesem Privatdozenten höchstens ein abstruses Phänomen sehen.
Krausismo  #736983
von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-08, 17:47  like dislike  Spam?  
rabend, it is not improbable that you may be right about Krause's unorthodox use of the German language, and word-creations. As for his poor success as a private tutor (Privatdozent), there is a lot more there than meets the eye: the book in question (Die drei ältesten Kunsturkunden der Freimaurerbrüderschaft) did not help him in his teaching occupation - probably it may have been the cause of his poor success in it, and not because the material in that book found appeal only among Spaniards, but because the book was published in Germany, and in the German language, against the wishes of many of his contemporaries.  However, no one can deny Krause's thorough investigation of every subject and every aspect of each subject in that book academically, historically, and philosophically, and more; rendering the reading of it fascinating and instructive, even today, 200 years after its publication. That, of course, if one can pierce through the abstruseness of his language.
Dracs  #736993
von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-08, 19:03  like dislike  Spam?  
Dracs, I have opened an Etherpad with  The problem with the two-column format is still outstanding.  I have asked titanpad support for advise.

Here is the pad:
Affecting real life not real life-effecting.  #737024
von Lllama (GB/AT), 2013-12-09, 09:08  like dislike  Spam?  
real life-effecting  #737074
von valandk (IT/CA), 2013-12-09, 14:22  like dislike  Spam?  
Hi Llama! - I debated that for some time: to affect, or to effect? real life-changing (effecting change) or producing an effect on real life (life-affecting)?

"... in's wirkliche Leben Eingreifendes ..." gives for "Eingreifen": Intervention, intervening

for "eingreifen": to intervene, to interfere, to encroach, to mesh, to step in, to impinge ...

The author is talking about "a lot more still out there, scooped (collected?) from the deep (or profound), that is (or would be) life-changing, or would (intervene, interfere, encroach, mesh, step in, impinge) in or with actual life. This is what he says:

"Hierüber wäre noch Vieles, tiefer Geschöpftes und in's wirkliche Leben Eingreifendes zu sagen"

Honestly, I am not convinced your suggestion is satisfactory - nor can I say that I am happy with mine.

Fortunately, there are some sharp minds, and well versed in the language, around here.  Perhaps one of them will come to my rescue.

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