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Frage:
Schlafrock  
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-04-24, 18:39  like dislike  Spam?  
Hi all!  I am back.  Please help me out:

"Der Deutsche läßt sich gehen, blickt dazu mit treuen blauen leeren deutschen Augen — und sofort verwechselt das Ausland ihn mit seinem Schlafrocke!" (Friedrich Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Böse.)

My take: "The German lets himself go [relaxes?], and as he does so he gazes out with true blue empty German eyes — and foreigners immediately confound him with his dressing gown! [external appearance?]

I can't make any sense of this "dressing gown."  You who have imbibed your German through your mother's milk, what do you make out of this "Schlafrock"?

Thanks in advance.
Antwort: 
nightgown?  #752648
von silverhare (DE), 2014-04-24, 19:52  like dislike  Spam?  
Den "dressing gown" assoziiere ich eher mit einem eleganten, beinahe herrschaftlichen Kleidungsstück. Vielleicht kann ein native speaker beurteilen, ob "nightgown", auch wenn das nicht ganz die korrekte Überetzung ist, den verschlafenen, leicht verschlampten Charakter besser trifft.
Chat:     
von uffie (GH/KI), 2014-04-24, 20:38  like dislike  Spam?  
 #752649
Duden agrees with dressing gown... funny, I'd have guessed pyjamas or something like that.

treu - can be true, faithful is stronger
Chat:     
 herrschaftlichen Kleidungsstück  #752653
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-04-24, 20:41  like dislike  Spam?  
Thank you, silverhare.  I thought it must have meant something more decorous than a nightgown ...

would "best garb/garment" or "external appearance"(as I have suggested) be appropriate then?
Antwort: 
uffie  #752654
von silverhare (DE), Last modified: 2014-04-24, 20:42  like dislike  Spam?  
Aber dieses "treu" geht wohl mehr in Richtung treu-doof
Antwort: 
My try:  #752659
von silverhare (DE), Last modified: 2014-04-24, 21:06  like dislike  Spam?  
The German tends to neglect himself looking out from his true blue empty German eyes, so abroad he would instantly be taken for his own nightgown.
Chat:     
von anonymous1, 2014-04-24, 21:02  like dislike  Spam?  72.82.10...
 #752660
"Dressing gown" used to refer to a coat you wore in the house after you got out of bed or before you went to bed. If you were somewhat lazy and didn't expect to go out of the house or receive visitors, you would be tempted to lounge around all day at home in your dressing gown.

At any rate, you would never wear a dressing gown outside of the house, so "house coat" could be a good word for it. "Bathrobe" and "morning coat" could work, but they suggest an activity and a time of day which may be not what Nietzsche intended. The meaning of ...sofort verwechselt das Ausland ihn mit seinem Schlafrocke!" escapes me completely, but so does a lot of Nietzsche's writing.
Antwort: 
anom1  #752661
von silverhare (DE), 2014-04-24, 21:16  like dislike  Spam?  
As far as I understand this quote, N. wants to express that the German seems to be a sloppy dozy devil. We have a sitcom here in German television where a guy appears in a take-away restaurant in his faded dressing gown talking a lot of rubbish. Very funny.
Chat:     
neglet himself - - - letting himself go - - - house coat  #752662
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-04-24, 21:16  like dislike  Spam?  
thanks you both, silverhare and anonymous.  I thing I can find the answer in both your suggestions.

I believe Nietzsche's "Der Deutsche läßt sich gehen" means "the German likes to relax"

and "und sofort verwechselt das Ausland ihn mit seinem Schlafrocke" means:

"and immediately foreigners confuse him for his house coat (dressing gown)" - - -  meaning, for his external appearance while relaxing in the comfort of his own house.  These foreigners do not see him (the German) for what he is, but for what he looks like.

Please, tell me I am right (so I can move on ...)  Thanks!
Antwort: 
von silverhare (DE), Last modified: 2014-04-24, 21:26  like dislike  Spam?  
 #752663
Nietzsche may have invented the "Übermensch", but as well he is mocking the Teutons in very sarcastic way. And this quote is definitely meant sarcastically.
Chat:     
pictures not worth a hundred words :-)   #752665
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-04-24, 21:28  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
Google: Schlafrock

I think this is akin to getting a page of "... in a blanket" food images when looking for the knitted or woven variety.
Chat:     
he is mocking the Teutons ...  #752666
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-04-24, 21:28  like dislike  Spam?  
Not so fast: he is sarcastic alright, but his sarcasms is directed to the foreigners, more than to a certain type of Germans. I think.
Antwort: 
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-04-24, 21:30  like dislike  Spam?  
 #752667
but now, how do I deal with the "dressing gown"?
Chat:     
valandk  #752670
von silverhare (DE), 2014-04-24, 21:52  like dislike  Spam?  
Are you sure? I can't pride myself on being an expert when it comes to Nietzsche. But as I kept in mind this littlebit I read long time ago I'd guess he is sarcastic in any direction.
4; Lisa: Funny! :-)))
Antwort: 
dressing gown  #752674
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-04-24, 22:12  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
treuen Augen - doleful eyes
Schlafrock - dressing gown

http://www.mangrove.cz/g/txt/andersen/Image133.gif
Housecoat would also work, but the image of not being ready for business is stronger with dressing gown.  

It think what he's trying to say is that the foreigners don't think "the German" means business and underestimate them.
Antwort: 
Dann wohl doch "dressing gown" ...  #752675
von silverhare (DE), Last modified: 2014-04-24, 22:32  like dislike  Spam?  
..., like Lisa said. Still I'm not quite sure about the "doleful eyes". Doesn't that means some sort of sadness or the like? "Treue Augen" or "treuer Blick" remind me of a dog, maybe a Dackel, looking up to you. Is that what you'd call "doleful"?
Chat:     
 foreigners don't think "the German" means business ...  #752676
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-04-24, 22:18  like dislike  Spam?  
Thank you, Lisa4dict (you didn't log out, did you?)

This is what I have:

The German lets himself go [likes to relax], and as he does so he gazes out with true blue empty German eyes — and foreigners immediately confound him with his dressing gown [external appearance, while so relaxing]!
Antwort: 
Prefab translation  #752679
von Proteus-, 2014-04-24, 22:24  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.235....
Der Deutsche läßt sich gehen, blickt dazu mit treuen blauen leeren deutschen Augen — und sofort verwechselt das Ausland ihn mit seinem Schlafrocke!
The German lets himself go [likes to relax], and as he does so he gazes out with true blue empty German eyes — and foreigners immediately confound him with his dressing gown [external appearance, while so relaxing]!
http://www.quintestalbans.com/beyond-good-and-evil-08.php
Antwort: 
Proteus  #752682
von silverhare (DE), 2014-04-24, 22:39  like dislike  Spam?  
... und so schließt sich dieser Kreis. Kompliment an valandk. ;-)
Chat:     
To Proteus  #752683
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-04-24, 22:40  like dislike  Spam?  
Hi Proteus!

The source you provide with your link above IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED - I know it intimately, and I can tell with certainty that the author is trying his best, sometimes with the help of this forum, but by no means can it be considered an authority.

See here (last line with the date, below Nietzsche's picture):

http://www.quintestalbans.com/beyond-good-and-evil.php
Chat:     
von anonymous1, 2014-04-24, 22:48  like dislike  Spam?  72.82.10...
 #752684
I think I understand. Not a suggestion for a translation since it's too far removed from the original, but I sense it as "...which immediately misleads foreigners into thinking that his outward appearance is a reflection of his inner being." In short, he looks benign and a bit daft, but he ain't.
Chat:     
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-04-24, 22:50  like dislike  Spam?  
 #752685
I agree.
Chat:     
von uffie (GH/KI), 2014-04-24, 23:41  like dislike  Spam?  
 #752697
this is how they usually describe the Swabians ;-)
Chat:     
Swabians  #752701
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-04-24, 23:49  like dislike  Spam?  
Wow! uffie, you never cease to amaze me.  Look here (the Swabians as seen by Nietzsche, "Good-natured and malicious"):

http://www.quintestalbans.com/beyond-good-and-evil-08.php#a201

directions: scroll down to number 244. down to the fourth paragraph.
Chat:     
von uffie (GH/KI), 2014-04-25, 00:00  like dislike  Spam?  
 #752705
BTW - true blue can be misread for completely blue, which is not what the German says.

I was looking forward to a translation for "Redlichkeit". Alas, the issue was dodged ;-)

And: it takes one to know one ....
Antwort: 
"true blue", "Redlichkeit"  #752707
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-04-25, 00:12  like dislike  Spam?  
I believe here "true blue" is meant as "echte blau," genuinely blue.

"Redlichkeit" - Google gives: Honesty, Probity.  I will change the translation to "Probity" - it fits better.
Chat:     
von anonymous1, 2014-04-25, 00:25  like dislike  Spam?  72.82.10...
 #752710
Brings to mind Üb' immer Treu' und Redlichkeit.
Chat:     
von anonymous1, 2014-04-25, 03:30  like dislike  Spam?  72.82.10...
 #752712
Been puzzling over the herrschaftliche Kleidungsstück until it occurred to me that it can only mean a garment typically worn by the landed gentry. They did not have to go to work, making it possible for them to lounge around the house reading books or wasting time posting on internet fora attired in leisure wear.
Chat:     
von uffie (GH/KI), 2014-04-25, 11:58  like dislike  Spam?  
 #752743
not so old-fashioned then ;-)
Chat:     
von uffie (GH/KI), 2014-04-25, 12:01  like dislike  Spam?  
 #752745
BTW probity is quite a good rendering although, in my mind, it captures only one facet of Redlichkeit as this also includes Rechtschaffenheit

http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Redlichkeit
http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Rechtschaffenheit
Antwort: 
A couple of comments for BE re the 22.18/22.24 translation -  #752770
von Lllama (GB/AT), 2014-04-25, 15:56  like dislike  Spam?  
let himself go is rather ambiguous - http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/let-oneself-go... Become careless or untidy in one’s habits or appearance
Although confound is used in BE, it is used much more rarely than it is in AE. Confuse or mistake are more common.
Chat:     
Rechtschaffenheit, leisure wear.   #752772
von valandk (IT/CA), Last modified: 2014-04-25, 16:06  like dislike  Spam?  
Good day to all!

"Rechtschaffenheit" - I see your point, uffie. However, Google T. gives  "Righteousness,  Uprightness, etc. for it, and "Probity" includes all of them. See here:

Google: probity

I like "leisure wear", and I have adjusted the translation accordingly.

Thanks to all.

Confounded, confused, mistaken for. - I agree.  I have adopted "confuse"

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