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Frage:
How to lose your country.  
von Jim46 (US), 2014-07-23, 16:12  like dislike  Spam?  
Our prisons are overflowing, even with early releases.  It's money that could be used
for better purposes.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/illegal-immigration-and...
Chat:     
von atemp (US), Last modified: 2014-07-24, 00:09  like dislike  Spam?  
 #763515
no comment
Chat:     
atemp  #763517
von MichaelK (US), 2014-07-23, 18:00  like dislike  Spam?  
Your vitriol is palpable. But that would be OK were it reasoned vitriol. But as it is, all I can see is innuendo and name-calling. Should have stopped reading after "progressive elements," sorry.
Chat:     
just a test  #763518
von heimuel (FR/DE), Last modified: 2014-07-23, 18:23  like dislike  Spam?  
please ignore
Chat:     
Snort*  #763523
von atemp (US), Last modified: 2014-07-23, 19:48  like dislike  Spam?  
Typical of the Left: any opinion that disagrees with theirs is labled "vitriol".  Still waiting for an answer to where money should better be spent.
Chat:     
atemp  #763524
von Jim46 (US), 2014-07-23, 20:02  like dislike  Spam?  
Instead of housing illegals in prison, the money should have been spent in controlling
the border, to keep them out in the first place.  4,000 murders by them in Texas alone
in four years.  I wonder how some of those families feel about it?

We have legal procedures for aliens to enter, but why should they bother?  Texas may
send 1,000 guardsmen to the border, to help control this disaster.
Chat:     
You don't want immigration?  #763526
von Lisa4dict (US), 2014-07-23, 20:18  like dislike  Spam?  
Fine, go ahead and start right off.  Go back to whatever European country your ancestors came from.  Unless they came here by migration, like some of mine did, you are the product of immigration.  But that's the shoe on the other foot, isn't it?
 Do you even know what the current rules and laws on immigration are?  I don't mean what your buddy or some demagogue told you about it, but the actual ones?  
Apart from that, it's amazing how logic never enters into the easy answer argumentation:
You don't want to pay taxes > government services won't be provided to those who need them > they end up desperate > desperate people commit desperate acts > they end up on your doorstep or in your news
You don't want a path for immigration (i.e.immigration reform) > people will find their own way and ignore the rules > you don't want to integrate them into your society, they stay outside and end up breaking your rules and laws > they end up in jail > your jails get full
You want a war on drugs > there is war > there are casualties, there are refugees and prisons are full of people who did nothing more violent than smoking pot. (Predominantly young, black people.  But that's another thread.)
You don't want to educate kids about sex > it gets way more interesting than it should be > they have sex
You tell them it's bad to prevent getting pregnant > they get pregnant > you don't want them to get rid of it > they have kids > they have kids they don't know how to care for > you don't want to help with services > the kids die. >> if those kids get born south of the border you don't want to know about them and you don't want them to come any closer.
You don't want to pay for police > laws won't be enforced > you want a gun, so you can enforce your own laws > your neighbor gets a gun to enforce his own laws > you want the right to shoot your neighbor > your neighbor will shoot you.  
Welcome to happy life created in the bubble.
Chat:     
von Lisa4dict (US), 2014-07-23, 20:53  like dislike  Spam?  
 #763530
We have legal procedures for aliens to enter ...
Which roughly boil down to
>> have lots of money (six figures plus, please) to invest in a business here
(So, rich people are all good?)
>> are on a list of "wanted professions" big industry paid to have set up to keep labor costs down
(Aka the Indian network. The lie that there are too few Americans who can be trained to be programmers is self perpetuating.  The H1 Indians we import will keep the prices down so low, Americans won't want to or be able to.  And even the H1 path is a long and arduous one.  Personally I'd rather have another Mexican fruit picker or roofer than one more Indian software hack.)
>> are a Wunderkind or a celebrity
>> are a direct relative of someone already a resident.  (No more uncles and cousins as the "Old ways of handling such matters" still allowed.) Parents and children only. Brothers and sisters already gets veeery difficult.
>> be a refugee from a list of countries permitted, then go through a harrowing ordeal of several decades worth of filing applications, sitting in offices and trying to figure out ever changing rules.
>> get a degree from an American University in an applicable category, go back to your country for 10 years (doing what?), apply for immigration status, hope you'll get in
>> join the Army (Wonderful all those things we promise young people if they're willing to get shot for our peace of mind.)
>> marry a resident, get a lawyer, have him/her deal with the bureaucracy.  Or chance having your spouse be sent abroad.  (Strangely enough that happens a lot more rarely with Russian mail order brides, than with a South American sweetheart.)
>> Have an American company hire you who can prove to the officials in charge that they can't find a suitable
American applicant to fill that position.
(AKA, big business, bribery and often enough lots of criminal elements involved.)

There are a couple more loophole ways to get in, but they require either an official accepting that some rule is applicable or some rare status that everyone but some shrewd lawyer has long forgotten.

But that's probably too much truth and reality for the easy answer crowd.
Chat:     
Whew!  #763532
von Jim46 (US), Last modified: 2014-07-23, 21:03  like dislike  Spam?  
I'm not opposed to immigration.  No, I don't know the laws.  In 2012 $48 billion was spent
for foreign aid (Google it).  Do we owe them free access to our country too? Do we deserve
to be robbed, raped, and murdered by foreigners?  Besides police, etc, shouldn't taxes
provide a secure border?

Much of your rant was off-topic.

Edit:  a reply to first post.
Chat:     
a secure border > How?  #763535
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2014-07-23, 22:36  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
Catch and release is not what you want.  Catch and imprisonment neither.  What then?
Shoot them?  
A wall? ( Never mind that we cheered back when the one in Berlin came down. Plus we tried that, didn't we.  How is that expensive boondoggle working out?)  
A DMZ? (Always wanted to live in a country protected by mine fields, spring guns and the like.)  Armed guards every hundred paces, doing what?  (Back to "shoot them, I guess.)

I've been to a couple of places along the border.  Go have a look.  The terrain varies by location, but in the mix are lakes, rivers, deserts, mountains, forests etc.  Building a wall throughout would be prohibitively expensive, impractical and ineffectual.  
You could turn the area into a war zone.  The border is 1,954 miles long.  How big a force would it take to keep that being watched and "defended?"  We already have a sizable force and it's barely a drop in the bucket.
Wikipedia(EN): United_States_Border_Patrol

BTW. Only very few foreigners will rob, rape, and murder citizens.  Even fewer of those are here illegally.  And whatever you'll propose that rate won't go down much.  What one might bring down is the robbing rape and murder of foreigners by foreigners and locals.  Societal controls only work on members of the society.  Plus, the stricter the laws the more unsavory the law breakers.

BTW. Although the remaining number is still sizable, more than half of the 48 billion you cite is going to military aid of some kind or other.
Chat:     
Lisa  #763536
von Jim46 (US), 2014-07-23, 23:44  like dislike  Spam?  
According to you, we are helpless.  To oppose any force requires a greater force.
We have to make it a losing endeavor to come here illegally.  Certain deportation
would be a necessary part of this effort  

Very few foreigners kill us?  Look here, for one example:
http://www.ojjpac.org/memorial.asp

And then there's this:
In 2003, the American Southwest saw 77 hospitals enter bankruptcy due to unpaid medical bills incurred by illegal aliens. A staggering 84 hospitals in California have been forced to close their doors because of the growing crisis.

How much are you willing to lose?
Chat:     
anonymous, 2014-07-24, 00:59  like dislike  Spam?  76.21.31...
 #763537
If Americans wanted to stop illegal immigration, they would ignore undocumented workers and simply start fining companies (Tyson Foods, ADM, etc.) that hire employees illegally and pay them slave wages. Conservatives refuse to try this approach because corporate welfare is their ideology.
Chat:     
von WingDing (US), Last modified: 2014-07-24, 01:19  like dislike  Spam?  
 #763539
You won't see any tea party tantrums over this http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/20/us/tyson-foods-indicted-in-plan-t... Indeed, they'd probably argue that slave labor is good for the economy.
Chat:     
" Do we deserve..  #763547
von migmag (DE), 2014-07-24, 09:40  like dislike  Spam?  
Do we deserve
to be robbed, raped, and murdered by foreigners?

Would it be more comfortable if these jobs were done by legal citizens?

The problem is the crime not citizenship.
Chat:     
Jim46, Lisa4, migmag ...et al.  #763573
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-07-24, 14:24  like dislike  Spam?  
I don’t believe this forum was set up as a soapbox for one to promote socio-political parochial views.  Having said that, I would no have the least objection, had you favored us with a German translation of everything you have said.
Chat:     
valandk  #763581
von Jim46 (US), 2014-07-24, 14:59  like dislike  Spam?  
The chat category provides a break from the daily problems of translation.
What's wrong with exchanging opinions with friends?
Chat:     
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-07-24, 15:06  like dislike  Spam?  
 #763583
Nothing wrong, Jim, nothing wrong at all.
Chat:     
valandk  #763605
von migmag (DE), 2014-07-24, 16:55  like dislike  Spam?  
"Having said that, I would no have the least objection, had you favored us with a German translation of everything you have said. "

May I ask you why the language makes a difference for you in that case?
Chat:     
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-07-24, 17:39  like dislike  Spam?  
 #763613
It would justify the presence of discussions such as this on a forum dedicated to German-English language translation.  I am sure there are other fora where such exchanges of ideas are more appropriate.
Chat:     
valandk  #763652
von WingDing (US), Last modified: 2014-07-25, 00:38  like dislike  Spam?  
What's a guy gotta do around here to get a German translation?
Ich lese nur Englisch. Was muss man tun, um eine deutsche Übersetzung zu kriegen?
Chat:     
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-07-25, 00:46  like dislike  Spam?  
 #763654
Just ask for it, after you have tried to do it yourself, and you are not sure it is correct.  I have done this many times, and I have always received generous and valuable help.
Chat:     
valandk  #763656
von WingDing (US), 2014-07-25, 00:53  like dislike  Spam?  
I was just having fun with you. You were the one objecting to chat entries that were not in 2 languages so I figured you should at least practice what you preach. I'm just having a chuckle, though. I agree that there is probably too much English in the forum.
Chat:     
von valandk (IT/CA), 2014-07-25, 01:02  like dislike  Spam?  
 #763657
well, I wasn't really objecting to it, but suggesting that discussions such as this (socio-political) could be better conducted in other paces, such as this:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/illegal-immigration/

Now, if one wanted to translate his view into German, then this forum is the best place I know for it.
Chat:     
von WingDing (US), 2014-07-25, 03:46  like dislike  Spam?  
 #763664
The problem is that I don't think socio-political discussions dominate this forum. If every channel were socio-political, then I might agree with you and call for moderation, but it's easy to pass over the socio-political threads. However, I think it's difficult, for many people who don't like soci-political discussions, to change the channel. For them, any socio-political discussion is offensive. They want to maintain some form of convention they believe exists, but fail to recognize that that belief itself is socio-political. Frankly, if this forum didn't have discussions that strayed from translation topics, I'd find it a bit too verklemmt for my taste.
Chat:     
von Iriemon (UN), Last modified: 2014-07-26, 09:28  like dislike  Spam?  
 #763753
if one wants straightforward Q&A there is always translatorscafe.com. No chitchat at all.

As long as there is a Wohlstandsgefälle there will be immigration. There is a discussion in Europe about whether all those African refugees should be let in or not. After recent disasters and deaths, people are being helped to survive. Result: even more are trying to come in. It depends what people are prepared to tolerate in a moral sense.

http://www.3sat.de/page/?source=/scobel/154330/index.html

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