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 Kreislaufzusammenbruch »
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Frage:
Kreislaufzusammenbruch  
von callixte (US), 2015-02-26, 21:30  like dislike  Spam?  
This word was recently entered.  The English side reads: state of fainting, or being close to fainting.
The first part I get.   Sie hat einen Kreislaufzusammenbruch erlitten.   She fainted.   It's the second part that has me stumped, the state of being close to fainting.   How can that be expressed in German using the word Kreislaufzusammenbruch?

I found the word used in the past tense, but not the present tense.  Is there a way to say "I feel faint" using Kreislaufzusammenbruch?
Antwort: 
I think that the entry was based on this discussion #785182  #790860
von Lllama (GB/AT), 2015-02-26, 21:51  like dislike  Spam?  
Chat:     
von callixte (US), Last modified: 2015-02-26, 22:57  like dislike  Spam?  
 #790861
Yes, Lllama,  I failed to make reference to the thread and hasten to point out that none of the German natives said they woud use Kreislaufzusammenbruch to mean, "I feel faint."   Can anyone confirm that it's possible, and supply a sentence?

Ich fühle mich, als ob ich an einen Kreislaufzusammenbruch leide.  Or
Er er sieht aus, als ob er an einen Kreislaufzusammenbruch leidet.   Are these possible?  Would someone say such a thing?
Antwort: 
von iriemonloggedout, 2015-02-26, 23:02  like dislike  Spam?  87.144.147....
 #790862
at the time - and still - I agreed with 4Helix, namely that I wouldn't use the "Kreislaufzusammenbruch" for feeling faint. See also 4Helix comment #785207
Chat:     
von callixte (US), Last modified: 2015-02-26, 23:24  like dislike  Spam?  
 #790866
4;iriemonloggedout:  I read your comment.  Even 4Helix, said he wouldn't use it absent an actual fainting.

Here is an example I found from a chat room:

Ich kenne eine Frau, die es mit dem Entwässern (aus Figur-Gründe, ohne Arzt) übertrieben hat und ein Kreislaufzusammenbruch erlitten hat!

The word seems only usable for fainting in the past.   Oder?
Chat:     
Erleiden / leiden.  #790867
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2015-02-27, 01:05  like dislike  Spam?  
4;callixte: The erlitten in your sentence is the past of erleiden, not leiden. With a circulatory collaps, erleiden (can only be used transitively) is the word to use because it means "to undergo or to be subjected to what is perceived to be an external evil." The circulatory collaps usually comes out of nowhere, manifests itself quickly and the cause is often mysterious--conditions that point to the use of erleiden, not to leiden.

The leiden (past: gelitten ) in this context is interesting because of the difference between leiden an and leiden unter. That difference is not rigidly observed, but leiden an usually suggests a permanent state and leiden unter usually means "on one or more occasions."

Last thought: The K-word is used in the present as well.
Google: "kreislaufzusammenbruch erleiden"
Antwort: 
pseudo-diagnosis  #790869
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2015-02-27, 00:36  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
http://www.chefkoch.de/forum/2,22,475389/Was-dem-Arbeitgeber-erzaeh...
I think the "being close to fainting" description stems from the fact that it isn't a real condition.  It's rather a catchall  term for conditions that range from "under the weather" to actual fainting spells.
In the above thread someone was advised to use the term as a euphemism for a case of depression.
Antwort: 
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2015-02-27, 08:24  like dislike  Spam?  
 #790870
I can see the "close to fainting" in direct speech when one suspects the event is taking place or is just being dramatic. "Mir is so schwindlig, ich muss mich mal hinsetzen. Ach Gott, ich glaub ich hab nen Kreislaufzusammenbruch!" But it's a long way from 'close to fainting' to actually being a Kreislaufzusammenbruch.
Some levity:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/you-have-what-mysterious-illnes...
Chat:     
von iriemonloggedout, 2015-02-27, 03:31  like dislike  Spam?  87.144.147....
 #790872
as I said before, in colloquial German this would be described as something like " Probleme mit meinem Kreislauf" or similar.

I believe it is unsuitable as an entry, see also Michael's and Lisa's comments. Convincing the German voters is another matter altogether....
Chat:     
Thanks for the link, Michael.  #790875
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2015-02-27, 07:49  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
The article writer clearly hadn't been to Germany in the old days.  Then a draft would not have been blamed for a mere case of the "flu" but rather for a more serious condition called "Schwindsucht" or in an even more serious variety "gallopierende Schwindsucht."
Our preference for "treating" everything that possibly might come in the same medical dictionary as a bacterium with antibiotics is its own form of idiocy.  The medical profession is happily playing along, pushing our environment with glee towards antibiotic resistant monster diseases.  Honestly, from viral common colds or ear infection to sprained ankles, antibiotics are the panacea of choice.  I was speechless when I ran into a mother who was upset that her kid's doctors refused to give her kid antibiotics after a fall.  He had a big bruise, but no broken skin.  I started trying to explain to her why the doctors were right, but had to give up in the face of her superior medical expertize thanks to the university of grape vine gossip and paid for ads.
I mentioned our own "mystery" diagnoses, like crashing bloodsugar or "hernia," before.  It seems it's easier to see bogus "common knowledge" in other cultures.
Give me a good old eagle feather over an Aspirin any day :-)
Chat:     
Times are a' changing, Lisa.  #790877
von MichaelK (US), 2015-02-27, 08:14  like dislike  Spam?  
I don't know the exact wording, but it's pretty amazing to think about the fact that many U.S. drug advertisements now advise the consumer to "tell your doctor about this drug." Semi-literates instructing professionals, who would have thought it.  :-)
Chat:     
About "Schwindsucht":  #790891
von migmag (DE), 2015-02-27, 10:35  like dislike  Spam?  
Wikipedia(DE): Tuberkulose

Galoppierende Schwindsucht = Lungentuberkulose -> http://www.healthy48.com/deu/d/galoppierende-schwindsucht/galoppier...

A really dangerous desease, especially back in the day.
Antwort: 
von callixte (US), 2015-02-27, 11:05  like dislike  Spam?  
 #790894
4;Michaelk:  Thanks for your explanation and link.   I followed it, and read many of the entries for which Kreislaufzusammenbruch erleiden was used in the present tense, or with a modal verb.  Time after time (in medical texts) the word translates as "circulatory collapse", not "feeling faint."   Even when used by someone in a chat room it is with the sense of passing out, or blacking out (ohnmächtig werden, or einfach umfallen)  not feeling faint.

You crafted a plausible example of the word's use in the present tense-and I thank you for it-but it's hard, if not impossible, to actually find a native speaker who actually uses the word to mean "feeling faint".

4;lisaloggedout:  Yes, this is the classic case of someone reaching out for help and getting a loopy answer.  But your find is to be taken seriously, and does give me pause.  Was the person suggesting the use of Kreislaufzusammenbruch to describe an ongoing condition?  Maybe.   And if so, then it applies to the "frayed nerves" or "burn out" the questioner experienced.  A misdiagnosis, as you say, but a present tense application of the word all the same.
Antwort: 
callixte: I wasn't clear.  #790913
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2015-02-27, 13:32  like dislike  Spam?  
I didn't concoct the direct speech sentences to show how Kreislaufzusammenbruch could be used in the present tense, but how the word could be used in connection with feeling faint. Kreislaufzusammenbruch is used in the present tense all the time, I gave a link.
I think the reason you couldn't find examples of Kreislaufzusammenbruch in the present tense because in your search, you probably paired Kreislaufzusammenbruch with the incorrect leiden instead of the required erleiden. You can't use leiden with a singular medical emergency like a Kreislaufzusammenbruch.
If you do want to express that you experience this medical emergency often, you could say Ich leide unter Kreislaufzusammenbrüchen. But more likely, someone would say Ich leide unter schweren Kreislaufstörungen.
Chat:     
von callixte (US), 2015-02-27, 16:55  like dislike  Spam?  
 #790963
4;Michaelk:  I was the one who wasn't clear.  I saw from following your link that Kreislaufzusammenbruch is paired with erleiden to reflect a present tense condition.   But my point is that the several entries I read only referred to circulatory collapses which resulted in, or would result in unconsciousness, not a feeling of faintness.   Actually, lisa's posted example is what I think really explains what is going on here.   People simply reach for a word to throw out there, even if it is medically wrong.   I guess if the mistake is repeated often enough it finds its way into dictionaries.  The descriptivists have prevailed in this case.  Good for them!  But, my prescriptionist tendencies rail against it here.  I feel confident that sooner or later rabend  or some other scholar will question the "feeling faint" part of this entry.  

One final point.   dict.cc has now enshrined a "mistake".   But when the words K. erleiden are uttered correctly, there are no entries for "black out" or "pass out" or "vagal out" (AE).  How odd.
Chat:     
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2015-02-27, 18:24  like dislike  Spam?  
 #790970
Perhaps what the defenders of the faint feeling are getting at is this: While a word might be used in an ignorant fashion, that word even in its wrongful definition has a place in dict.cc. Sort of like the gastronomical Hähnchen often being a Henne. I dunno, perhaps I'm getting confused. Need to leave this thread, thanks for the discussion, callixte!
Antwort: 
So ähnlich?  #791026
von Wenz (DE), Last modified: 2015-02-28, 10:54  like dislike  Spam?  
[sudden decrease of blood pressure with e.g. a feeling of lightheadedness] = Kreislaufzusammenbruch (m) [ugs.]

Anmerkung: Ich kann mir gut vorstellen, daß jemand, der den Notarzt anruft sagt: "Mein Mann hat einen Kreislaufzusammenbruch - egal, was er tatsächlich hat ... "
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Was ich täglich sage, wenn ich meinen Nachmittagsschlaf beendet habe: Ist der Kaffee hoffentlich schon fertig, mein Kreislauf crasht oder mein Kreislauf bricht gerade zusammen.

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