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Frage:
Büttner  
von Badger (US), 2015-06-16, 05:17  like dislike  Spam?  
For Brill's Encyclopedia of Early Modern History, I'm translating the article "Böttcher/Cooper". It distinguishes a lot of sub-specialists, including *Büttner•, as a kind of Klein- oder Weißbinder. I can find no accepted or even suggested EN equivalent. Any suggestions would be welcome.
(What's worse, it occurs in this list: " … Büttner, Wanner/Wannenmacher, Kübler, Schäffler (Schaff = offenes Holzgefäß), Legler (Legel = Kiepe oder Hotte), Eimer- und Bechermacher." I'm fine with "Eimer- und Bechermacher" but would welcome help with any of the other terms as well.) The translation cooper is not helpful, since the DE text is distinguishing different types.
Antwort: 
Büttner  #804982
von Catesse (AU), Last modified: 2015-06-16, 06:06  like dislike  Spam?  
A Büttner is obviously somebody who makes Bütten, so what is a Bütte?
Might these help, or have you already been there?
http://www.dict.cc/german-english/B%C3%BCtte.html
http://en.bab.la/dictionary/german-english/buette
Google: Büt­te
Wikipedia(DE): B%C3%BCtte
PS: See also: Wikipedia(EN): Rainwater_tank
Chat:     
Butte - Wasserbutte  #804983
von Wenz (DE), Last modified: 2015-06-16, 08:07  like dislike  Spam?  
Kenn ich noch aus meiner Kindheit:
http://www.zeno.org/Adelung-1793/A/Wasserbutte,+die
Da mußten die Bauersfrauen, deren Häuser auf dem Berg standen und die noch nicht an die Wasserleitung angeschlossen waren, Wasser aus dem Bach im Tal holen und in Butten den Berg hochtragen.
Wird Dir, Badger, aber nicht viel weiterhelfen. Den engl. Begriff kenn ich nicht.
----------
Böttcher machen auch die Bierfässer ...
Barrel maker (gibt es so was?)
Kübler - der gemeine Faßbinder oder Böttcher, zum Unterschiede von den Küfern, welche nur mit Weingefäßen umgehen.
http://www.zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q=k%C3%BCbler&k=Bibliothek
Antwort: 
Thanks.  #804984
von Badger (US), 2015-06-16, 08:17  like dislike  Spam?  
Of course it's quite likely that there are no real EN equivalents for 16th-century German specialist coopers. Faute de mieux, I'm quite prepared to simply keep the German terms and paraphrase their meaning. (I find lists like this, which seem superficially so straightforward, often very challenging, since they provide minimal context.) (I enjoyed your historical memory.)
Chat:     
Water butts  #804986
von Catesse (AU), 2015-06-16, 08:43  like dislike  Spam?  
I remember reading about water butts in old children's books. I think that they were rather squat barrels for storing excess water when the tanks were full. Whatever: I think that you would be safe translating it as "butt makers". I don't think that life or money would be endangered if it is not quite right.
Antwort: 
Probably not.  #804989
von Badger (US), 2015-06-16, 09:01  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
von uffie (GH/KI), 2015-06-16, 09:40  like dislike  Spam?  
 #804990
Sorry that I can't be of more help. I've found only  one book on the internet on the subject.

http://www.astragalpress.com/cooper_trade.htm
https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Cooper_and_His_Trade.html?...

In BE barrel maker is an alternative description.
Antwort: 
Büttner, Küfer, Fassbinder  #804993
von Dracs (DE), Last modified: 2015-06-16, 10:05  like dislike  Spam?  
http://german.about.com/library/blgenevoc_berufe.htm
http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Fassbinder
Der Bütner
Ich bin ein Bütner / und mach stolz /
auß Föhren / Tennen / Eichen Holz /
Badwan / Schmalzkübel / scheffel un geltn /
Die Bütten und Weinfässer weltn /
BierFässer machn / bichen und binden /
Waschzübr thut man bey mir finden /
Auch mach ich Lägl Fässer und Stübch /
Gen Franckfurt / Leipzig un Lübig
Chat:     
Diese Dinger waren zum Teil auch Maßeinheiten  #804994
von Wenz (DE), 2015-06-16, 10:07  like dislike  Spam?  
Bedingt durch diversen Fürstentümer (die wiederum häufig ihre eigen-definierten "Maße" hatten) gab es wohl regional auch unterschiedliche Begriffe für oft ein und dasselbe Ding - und dann eben für den Handwerksberuf.
Antwort: 
von ddr (AT), 2015-06-16, 10:29  like dislike  Spam?  
 #805002
Büttner make 'Butten', wooden containers you carry on your back. (see Wikipedia 'Butte')
Wanner seem to have made (wooden) tubs (more wide than high)
Kübler probably made wooden buckets (Kübel)
Schäffler seem to have made tubs as well, not very different from Wannen (Schaff)
Legler obviously made wooden Kiepen (see Wikipedia 'Kiepe'. Not very different from a Butte.)

These terms were regional. The same profession will have had different names in different parts of the German speaking realm.
Antwort: 
Alaaf  #805009
von TheTimeLard, 2015-06-16, 11:21  like dislike  Spam?  79.223.23....
For "Bütte" just see:

Wikipedia(DE): B%C3%BCtte

It was used for the production of paper and wine. If you turn it upside down, you can step on it and speak truth or talk nonsense. That's the origin of the term "Büttenrede" used in "Karneval".
Chat:     
http://woerterbuchnetz.de/DWB/?sigle=DWB&mode=Vernetzung&le...  #805011
von Lisa4dict loggedout, 2015-06-16, 11:33  like dislike  Spam?  99.11.162....
? cask (52 1/2 imp. gal.)
There seem to have been a variety of containers that fell under that name.  The wine harvest and water transport vessels were likely of less capacity than the paper making "Bütte" or a "Waschbütte."
https://books.google.com/books?id=vw1YAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA73&dq=w...
https://books.google.com/books?id=1xk2AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA86&dq=%...

http://woerterbuchnetz.de/DWB/?sigle=DWB&mode=Vernetzung&le...
http://woerterbuchnetz.de/DWB/?sigle=DWB&mode=Vernetzung&le...
bucket

Wikipedia(DE): Scheffel_%28Ma%C3%9Feinheit%29

I think Eimer- und Bechermacher would have been carving their vessles, rather than assembling them from slats.
https://books.google.com/books?id=HEVDAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA87&...
https://books.google.com/books?id=B2hZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA348&dq=...
Chat:     
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2015-06-16, 12:36  like dislike  Spam?  
 #805024
There are specialist coopers like white cooper, dry cooper, wet cooper, dry-tight cooper, and perhaps some more. It's possible a Büttner was a cooper who did not bend wood, which would translate to what in colonial Virginia was called a 'white cooper' making things like washtubs and using straight (= not bent) staves.
Antwort: 
Bottich  #805025
von Dracs (DE), 2015-06-16, 12:31  like dislike  Spam?  
Chat:     
von MichaelK (US), 2015-06-16, 12:52  like dislike  Spam?  
 #805026
Perhaps keying on the name of the product is making the search difficult. As in the case of dry, wet and dry-tight coopers, the name of the trade incorporates the task the product had to perform, not what the product was called. Beats me what the 'white' in 'white cooper' means, so it doesn't always work that way. Just a thought.
Chat:     
zu 11:21  #805038
von uffie (GH/KI), 2015-06-16, 14:11  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
Some more  #805096
von TheTimeLard, 2015-06-16, 16:11  like dislike  Spam?  79.223.23....
Here's a link with nice pictures (also lists regional origins of different terms):
http://www.handwerkergilde-alt-brettheim.de/kuefer.htm

The reason why there are some many terms in the German language for all sorts of coopers may also be due to the medieval guild system. Someone who was specialized in wine casks may have been technically able to produce a powder keg, but not allowed to do so.

The "white" in "white cooper" (Weißküfer) alludes to the color of used wood (not really white, but lighter than others).

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