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deutsche Stämme  
von uffiee, 2016-05-27, 12:10  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.96...
Einer meiner Lieblings-Asterix-Dialoge:  #844617
von Baccalaureus (DE), 2016-05-27, 13:04  like dislike  Spam?  
Obelix: Und wo gehen wir jetzt hin ?
Asterix: Zur Grenze, zu den Westgoten! Nach Osten!
Obelix: Die Westgoten leben im Osten ?
Asterix: Nein! Die Westgoten leben im Westen, die Ostgoten im
Osten! Die Westgoten sind aber von uns aus gesehen im
Osten! - Verstanden?
Obelix: Nein!
von uffiee, 2016-05-27, 13:17  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.96...
Germanen  #844625
von Catesse (AU), 2016-05-27, 14:50  like dislike  Spam?  
The Germanen, of course, are not all German, just as the Dutch are not Deutsche.
von Proofreader, 2016-05-27, 15:19  like dislike  Spam?  84.113.16...
You are opening a can of worms, Catesse, when you are challenging the notion of "German".
Chat:  #844628
von Baccalaureus (DE), 2016-05-27, 15:24  like dislike  Spam?  
- und ich distanziere mich auf der Stelle vom Inhalt dieses unmöglichen Sauflieds!!!
Proofreader  #844631
von Catesse (AU), 2016-05-27, 16:44  like dislike  Spam?  
The worms can pull their heads in.
Depends on whether you approach the concept from the point of view of ethnology, linguistics or politics, and whether you put your mind into gear before letting your emotions race off.
Technically, Swedes, Norwegians and Icelanders are Nordgermanen, but you would hardly be justified in classifying them as Deutsch. Teutons they are not.
von uffiee, 2016-05-27, 18:46  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.96...
Germanen is a broad term for many north European groups. The site is looking at the whole thing from an anthropolical point of view.

Kimbern und Teutonen
Der germanische Stamm der Kimbern stammt aus dem nördlichen Jütland (im heutigen Dänemark). Gemeinsam mit den Teutonen und Ambronen zogen sie um das Jahr 120 v. Chr. aus ihrem ursprünglichen Siedlungsgebiet im Norden nach Süden. Ihr Zug nach Süden führte sie nach Böhmen, Schlesien und Mähren, ins Donaugebiet und schließlich in das Königreich Noricum. Dort begann im Jahre 113 v. Chr. eine langjährige und blutige Auseinandersetzung zwischen den Kimbern und Teutonen einerseits und den Römern. Sie endete schließlich mit der fast völligen Vernichtung beider Stämme.

Here an interesting discussion why Deutschland is called  Germany in English
von uffiee, 2016-05-27, 18:46  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.96...
von geo255 (US), 2016-05-27, 22:53  like dislike  Spam?  
The meaning of a word is how it is used.  "German" is used in many different ways, that's why it has many different meanings.

A meaning cannot be false.  It is just the way the speaker uses the term or expression.  However, a meaning may be different from, or even contradict, common usage.  If I define Australians as Germans, I am using "Germans" in a way quite different from most residents of, say, Leipzig and Sydney.  This is entirely different, of course, from the proposition "All Australians are Germans" which is false according to the customary meaning(s) of 'Australians' and 'Germans'.
geo  #844651
von Catesse (AU), 2016-05-28, 07:04  like dislike  Spam?  
The statement that "All Australians are Germans" would be false for more than "customary meanings" of the words. DNA tests suggest that the Australian Aborigines may be proto-Dravidians, and in no sense Germanic. (I am not looking for an argument on that topic; I don't know how valid it is.) There are also many legally "Australians" who are Han Chinese, Mongolian, Melanesian, Polynesian, Semitic (both Jewish and Arab), Somali, and whatever and so on.
If you want to specify what you may mean by "Australian" you now have to use "Anglo-Australian". A few years ago my doctor was of Greek descent, my dentist Italian, my pharmacist Chinese, and only my solicitor Anglo. My current doctor is Hunnan Chinese and my cardiologist is Tamil, I think, while most of the drivers of the taxis that I must use since I handed in my licence seem to be Sikhs. As long as they can do their job, you take whatever turns up.
Your argument re the meaning of words reminds me of Humpty Dumpty in "Alice Through the Looking Glass".
   "I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
    Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
    "But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
    "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
    "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
    "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."
von ddr (AT), 2016-05-28, 09:35  like dislike  Spam?  
Da es keine Südgermanen gab, sind wir Ösis glücklicherweise Kelten (Noriker) oder waren es zumindest zur Zeit von Christi Geburt.:))
Catesse  #844662
von geo255 (US), 2016-05-28, 11:16  like dislike  Spam?  
I'm afraid you misunderstood my point.  If the sentence "All Australians are Germans" is taken as a definition of Australians, it is neither true nor false.  It is simply a statement about how the user intends to employ the term 'Australians'.  On the other hand, if it is a proposition, then it may be true or false depending on the meanings attached to 'Australians' and 'Germans'.

Not all sentences are propositions BTW.  Take: "The current King of France is bald."  This is neither true nor false since there is no referent "current King of France" (the sentence does not assert that there is or is not a current King of France but only that given the meanings of "current King of France" and "bald" there is a congruence).  The speaker in this case has assigned a special meaning to 'current King of France" which does not allow us to determine the truth value of his utterance.  

Such utterances are common in poetry, e.g. Dylan Thomas' "The hawk on fire hangs still" from "Over Sir John's Hill" is a good example.

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