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Frage:
Schlingenmacherei  
von Badger (US), 2016-11-21, 23:14  like dislike  Spam?  
In an article on Lace(making) in the Encyclopedia of Early Modern History, the following sentence occurs:
"Im Salzburger Flachgau entwickelte sich nach 1600 die sog. Schlingenmacherei; ... " There is no further discussion that might suggest what this is. Something to do with loops or mesh. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Antwort: 
von Proofreader, 2016-11-22, 02:53  like dislike  Spam?  84.113.32....
 #859079
https://books.google.de/books?id=WrTmDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA373&lpg=...

As I read the passage, "Schlingenmacherei" is just a local name for lacemaking.
Antwort: 
There are hundreds of types of lace  #859083
von aphoenix (US), Last modified: 2016-11-22, 05:44  like dislike  Spam?  
This would not be just a local name for lacemaking, but rather reference to manufacture of a particular type of lace.  I was able to find some sources by googling Salzburg Schlingen 1600, Based on a glance at the results I'd translate "Schlingenmacherei" as "the manufacture of the so-called "Salzburger-Schlingen" " (see http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/%22Das_Salzburger_Tuch_von_1707%22) Of course if you can  translate 'einfachen Klöppelborte mit Fransen, den sogenannten „Salzburger Schlingen"' that would provide more information.  My guideline for translating that which is untranslatable using available resources is to put myself in the place of the reader.  If I provide a translation that is imprecise or incorrect, the reader will get insufficient or false information.  If I provide the exact term, the reader who really needs to know will be able to do the research to find out more.
Antwort: 
von Proofreader, 2016-11-22, 06:38  like dislike  Spam?  84.113.32....
 #859087
"Salzburger Schlingen" may be particular type of lace, but the craft that is used to produce it is still lacemaking. "Meissener Porzellan" is different from "Gmundner Porzellan", but the craft remains porcellain making.
Antwort: 
Craft  #859093
von aphoenix (US), 2016-11-22, 07:57  like dislike  Spam?  
Yes, but in an article about lacemaking, as opposed to an article about crafts or economics or geography, the writer would be specific about the type of lace being made.
Antwort: 
What about loop making? Making loops, after all, is an integral part of lace making.  #859119
von Proteus-, 2016-11-22, 13:15  like dislike  Spam?  193.83.0....
Chat:     
von uffiee, 2016-11-22, 13:25  like dislike  Spam?  80.144.102...
 #859120
agree with aphoenix
Antwort: 
bezieht sich wahrscheinlich auf geklöppelte Spitze  #859124
von Gobber (DE/IO), Last modified: 2016-11-22, 13:41  like dislike  Spam?  
Salzburger Land war bekannt fürs Klöppeln...dict.cc: klöppeln
Meine Oma konnte das auch ;)
Antwort: 
von Sasso', 2016-11-22, 13:46  like dislike  Spam?  78.41.149....
 #859126
4;Proteus: Schlingen zu bilden ist kein typisches Merkmal der Spitzenklöppelei. Das hast du beim Stricken und Häkeln genauso. "loop making" könnte auch mit den Drahtschlingen verwechselt werden, die Wilderer im Wald legen.
Antwort: 
Der historisch-salzburgische Begriff Schlingenmacherei könnte ohne Erläuterungen und Geschichtsbezug nicht mit Drahtverarbeitung verwechselt werden?  #859128
von Proteus-, 2016-11-22, 14:12  like dislike  Spam?  193.83.0....
Antwort: 
Man könnte bei dem Wort an sich auch an Fallensteller denken!  #859129
von Proteus-, 2016-11-22, 14:13  like dislike  Spam?  193.83.0....
Antwort: 
von Sasso', 2016-11-22, 15:46  like dislike  Spam?  78.41.149....
 #859147
Genauso ist es. Deswegen sollte man es im Englischen mit "lace-making" wiedergeben.
Antwort: 
Warum denn nicht analog zum Deutschen Schlingenmacherei (Art von Spitzenerzeugung) > loop making (kind of lace making)?  #859153
von Proteus-, 2016-11-22, 16:44  like dislike  Spam?  193.81.161....
Antwort: 
Bobbin lace?  #859167
von aphoenix (US), 2016-11-22, 18:11  like dislike  Spam?  
Based on googling the terms, bobbin lace Salzburg 1600, I would conclude that the lace in question is a type of bobbin lace.  However, I still maintain that if there is a specific name for this lace in German and one can't find an English equivalent (possibly because there isn't one), then it serves the reader best if that name is retained.  The reader can then consult a German expert on lace who would be able to pinpoint not just the type of lace but the specific patterns of that era.  If one simply says lace-making, the translation contains less information than the original.
Antwort: 
Local flavour of Schlingenmacherei  #859180
von Proteus-, 2016-11-22, 19:50  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.235...
Proofreader is right / 02:53. Schlingenmacherei has a peculiarly rural flavour. The district surrounding the eponymous capital of the important ecclesiastical principality of Salzburg was agrarian rather than industrial. Thus local lace-making terminology could not spread to relevant German-speaking industrial centres within the Holy Roman Empire.

It is good practice among translators to render the peculiar flavour of a term by furnishing a literal translation, either Schlingenmacherei (loop making) or loop making (Schlingenmacherei), before introducing established technical terms.
Chat:     
von Proofreader, 2016-11-22, 19:56  like dislike  Spam?  84.113.32....
 #859181
I insist that "Schlingenmacherei" is not a lace, but the craft of lace-making. The specific name for the Salzburg lace you have retrieved is "Salzburger Schlingen" or "Salzburg lace", and I don't think Badger needs specific information on that type of lace.
Antwort: 
Thanks, all.  #859182
von Badger (US), 2016-11-22, 20:02  like dislike  Spam?  
Now I'll mull this over. One thing is clear -- since the entire article is about lace-making, simply translating it as "lace-making" without some further qualification would not be helpful.
Chat:     
von aphoenix (US), 2016-11-22, 20:41  like dislike  Spam?  
 #859186
Thank you, Proteus.  Good advice.
Antwort: 
von Proofreader, 2016-11-23, 00:37  like dislike  Spam?  84.113.32....
 #859210
4;Badger: The article I linked to describes the historical evolution of lace-making ("Spitzenherstellung") and item 1 mentions several regions where it was of importance. It does not go into any detail of local characteristics, nor does it list the names the craft was given in the Erzgebirge, Idrija, or Ahrntal regions with one exception: the Flachgau (a region in the province of Salzburg). It says "entwickelte sich die sogenannte Schlingenmacherei" (what was called Schlingenmacherei developed there). There is no mention that Schlingenmacher was any different from the lace made in the other regions, you just get another local name "die sogenannten Gebrauchspitzen". So, if you need to translate the text, the obvious thing to do is to leave the local names untranslated.
Antwort: 
Perhaps not exactly lace?  #859214
von aphoenix (US), 2016-11-23, 01:06  like dislike  Spam?  
Actually, it may have been quite different from other lace, see "Verhandlungen in der Kammer der Abgeordneten des Königreichs ..., Issue 4" in Google books.  "A. die Schlingenmacherei.  Dieses Gewerbe macht Peitchenschlingen, Theils von Hand, theils mit Machinenen geflochtene."  The preceding and following text talks about the trade of saddlery.  I apologize for any typos.  I find reading scanned Fraktur rather arduous.
Antwort: 
Thanks.  #859218
von Badger (US), 2016-11-23, 05:37  like dislike  Spam?  
I've kept the DE and glossed it as "local Salzburg 'loop lacemaking'".

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