Alle Sprachen    |   EN   SV   IS   RU   RO   IT   FR   PT   HU   NL   SK   LA   FI   ES   BG   HR   NO   CS   DA   TR   PL   SR   EL   EO   |   SK   FR   HU   PL   NL   SQ   RU   ES   NO   SV   IT   CS   DA   PT   IS   HR   FI   BG   RO   |   more ...

Deutsch-Englisch-Wörterbuch

Online-Wörterbuch Englisch-Deutsch: Begriff hier eingeben!
  äöüß...
  Optionen | Tipps | FAQ | Abkürzungen | Desktop

LoginRegistrieren
Home|About/Extras|Vokabeltrainer|Fachgebiete|Benutzer|Forum|Mitmachen!
Übersetzungsforum Deutsch-Englisch
 Saying on Stein »
« pro Nase    

English-German Translation Forum

« zurück | Antworten aus- oder einblenden | Diskussion beobachten
Frage:
Saying on Stein  
von Shayne (US), 2017-05-05, 20:40  like dislike  Spam?  
Here is the full saying on my stein:

Bei Singen und Sagen
Nach Mühen und Plagen
Thut jeder sich laben
An Gottes herlichen Gaben!

I am having problems with “Singen und Sagen”.  I’m not sure what that phrase means exactly.  There are several references online that attribute the idiom to Martin Luther as he explained how he proclaimed the Gospel. There are indications it was a common idiom in the late 1800's as well.

I learned that "thut (thun)" was the correct spelling of "tut (tun)" prior to 1901.  I assume "herlichen" is now "herrlichen", but I'm not sure.

Any insights would be helpful.

Thanks!
Antwort: 
no special meaning  -  it's an alliteration (like: when chanting and chatting)  #870033
von anon., 2017-05-05, 21:00  like dislike  Spam?  77.10.78....
Antwort: 
Bei Singen und Reden — Sagen um des Reimes willen  #870036
von Proteus-, 2017-05-05, 21:41  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.201....
Das ästhetische Wiesel                                    The Aesthetic Weasel

Ein Wiesel                                                           A wease        
saß auf einem Kiesel                                            perched on an easel
inmitten Bachgeriesel.                                           within a patch of tea

Wisst ihr                                                              But why
weshalb?                                                              and how?

Das Mondkalb                                                       The Moon Cow
verriet es mir                                                          whispered her reply
im Stillen:                                                              one time:

Das raffinier-                                                           The sopheest-
te Tier                                                                    icated beest
tat's um des Reimes willen.                                     did it just for the rhyme.
http://www.alb-neckar-schwarzwald.de/morgenstern/morgenstern_poems....
Antwort: 
c&p error: A weasel ...  #870037
von Proteus-, 2017-05-05, 21:43  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.201....
Antwort: 
von Shayne (US), 2017-05-05, 21:48  like dislike  Spam?  
 #870038
So I assume "bei" here means "by"?  Does the following make any sense?  It seems strange:

By singing and speaking (talking)
After troubles and trials
Everyone refreshes themselves
with God's splendid gifts!

It could be something like this:

While singing and speaking
After burdens and hard work
Let everyone feast
On God's marvelous gifts!

What is your interpretation please?
Antwort: 
... patch of teasel  #870039
von Proteus-, 2017-05-05, 21:54  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.201....
Dipsacus is a genus of flowering plant in the family Caprifoliaceae.[1] The members of this genus are known as teasel, teazel or teazle.   Wikipedia(EN): Dipsacus  Wikipedia(DE): Karden
Antwort: 
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2017-05-05, 22:06  like dislike  Spam?  
 #870040
Singen und Sagen is pretty much a set phrase with Martin Luther. It refers in this context to a church service in which the music and the spoken word reinforce each other. "Singing and speaking" seems fine too me. "Talking" doesn't quite fit since the 'speaking' refers to the sermon and the spoken responses from the congregation. Singen needs no explanation.
Antwort: 
No versification  #870041
von Proteus-, 2017-05-05, 22:06  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.201....
Amidst singing and talking
After labouring and toiling
Everyone is enjoying
God's magnificent gifts.
Chat:     
Were steins emptied during Protestant church services?  #870042
von Proteus-, 2017-05-05, 22:09  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.201....
Antwort: 
word order (according to Max Night's translation)  #870043
von anon., 2017-05-05, 22:10  like dislike  Spam?  77.10.78....
...
The sopheest-
icated beest
just did it for the rhyme.

(sounds much better, doesn't it?)
Antwort: 
S t e i n o l o g y   #870045
von Proteus-, 2017-05-05, 22:26  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.201....
Stein Collectors International    
http://stein-collectors.org/library/TranslationsIllustrated/Transla...
~ Translations Illustrated ~
Compiled by Roy De Selms, SCI Master Steinologist
The purpose of this work is to make available transcriptions and translations of verses and salutations that appear on old German beer steins with photos of the verses as seen on the steins. All verses on old German steins cannot be expected to have correct grammar and the same verse might even vary from stein to stein.
Bei Singen und Sagen,              With singing and story-telling,
nach Mühen und Plagen,           after hard work and worry,
thut jeder sich laben                  let everyone refresh themselves
an Gottes herrlichen Gaben!       with God's splendid gifts!
http://stein-collectors.org/library/TranslationsIllustrated/B/Bei_S...
Chat:     
22:10 So much better!  #870046
von Proteus-, 2017-05-05, 22:28  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.201....
Chat:     
von MichaelK (US), 2017-05-05, 22:28  like dislike  Spam?  
 #870047
4;Proteus: The existence of religious texts on a stein hardly infers that such steins were used during worship.
Chat:     
Religious texts on steins? Mr Roy De Selms would not seem to agree.  #870049
von Proteus-, 2017-05-05, 22:35  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.201....
Chat:     
von MichaelK (US), 2017-05-06, 00:07  like dislike  Spam?  
 #870052
Can't argue with an SCI Master Steinologist. With those credentials, he must be right.
Antwort: 
singen und sagen dürfte nicht auf den Luther-Zusammenhang bzw. Religiöses zu reduzieren sein  #870053
von Proteus-, 2017-05-06, 00:10  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.201....
Die Formel war auch rein weltlich in Gebrauch:

Man hat schon eine geraume Zeit her wider solche Neugierigkeit der Deutschen gesungen und gesagt: aber da hilft weder warnen noch weisen, ...
Der Sprachgerichtshof oder die französische und deutsche Sprache in Deutschland vor dem Richterstuhl der Denker und Gelehrten 1814  
https://books.google.de/books?id=tzZJAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA44&dq=%2...
Antwort: 
Evidence  #870054
von Proteus-, 2017-05-06, 00:14  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.201....
Antwort: 
1st LINK once more: https://www.google.de/#q=%22gesungen+und+gesagt%22&tbm=bks  #870055
von Proteus-, 2017-05-06, 00:16  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.201....
Antwort: 
Thank you!  #870056
von Shayne (US), 2017-05-06, 00:31  like dislike  Spam?  
I appreciate everyone's input.  "Singen und Sagen" was an idiom definitely coined by Luther, or at least made well-known by him.  Perhaps the phrase was adopted and secularized by others later, including Villeroy & Boch.  Either way, my older German friends, although religious, interpreted it similarly to Roy De Selms:

With singing and talking (that is what people do over a beer)
After hard work and much effort (both words mean actually the same)
Does everyone refresh themselves
in God's marvelous gifts!
Antwort: 
von callixte (US), Last modified: 2017-05-07, 07:49  like dislike  Spam?  
 #870076
After work and woe,
To talk and song we go.
Our thirst we slake,
Of God's gifts we partake.

After all our toil and labor
It is speech and song we favor.
Thereupon our thirst we slake,
And of God's gifts do we partake.
Chat:     
CALLISTVS FORI POETA LAVREATVS  #870117
von Proteus-, 2017-05-06, 22:21  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.22....
Chat:     
mihi desunt verba  #870126
von callixte (US), 2017-05-06, 23:56  like dislike  Spam?  

Optional: Login | Registrieren 
  Frage beantworten oder Kommentar hinzufügen
Please log in to post an answer to this thread - or post a new question.
nach oben | home© 2002 - 2019 Paul Hemetsberger | Impressum / Datenschutz
Dieses Deutsch-Englisch-Wörterbuch basiert auf der Idee der freien Weitergabe von Wissen. Mehr Informationen!
Enthält Übersetzungen von der TU Chemnitz sowie aus Mr Honey's Business Dictionary (Englisch/Deutsch). Vielen Dank dafür!
Links auf dieses Wörterbuch oder einzelne Übersetzungen sind herzlich willkommen! Fragen und Antworten