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Frage:
etc.  
von Catesse (AU), 2017-06-28, 05:24  like dislike  Spam?  
A trivial quickie, but of universal application. Is it acceptable to use "etc." instead of "usw." in a comment on a German side? I keep changing these, but they keep happening. So am I out of step?
Antwort: 
von romy (CZ/GB), 2017-06-28, 05:51  like dislike  Spam?  
 #873065
Hello Catesse, it is acceptable. After all, it is Latin (et cetera = and other ones) and with that it is universally applicable in the global academic society. In other words, it is actually not an English term, but "academic language". However, the German counterpart "usw." is broadly used in German-speaking countries, whereas the English-speaking countries have by now not adopted any proper English counterpart. I could imagine "and so on", but nothing like that has been firmly established in the English language by now. Hence, while using "etc." is not a mistake in any civilised language community, it is preferable to use "usw." in German and stick to "etc." in English and Latin only.
Antwort: 
"etc." is more often used in German than is "usw." At least they are used equally often.  #873074
von BHM (DE), 2017-06-28, 09:04  like dislike  Spam?  
Compare the following: "Haus""etc": Google
"Haus""usw": Google
Antwort: 
et cetera   #873075
von ddr (AT), 2017-06-28, 09:23  like dislike  Spam?  
(ausgesprochen) ist  ein ganz gebräuchliches Wort auf Deutsch, folglich ist auch die Abkürzung gebräuchlich. Möglicherweise ist es ein bisschen 'bildungssprachlich'.
Antwort: 
If Duden says so  #873081
von Catesse (AU), 2017-06-28, 10:28  like dislike  Spam?  
then so be it.
Chat:     
romy, "and so on" / "and so forth" VS "etc.".  #873082
von tomaquinaten (US/DE), 2017-06-28, 10:42  like dislike  Spam?  
As to EN, the expressions "and so on" and "and so forth" are more common than you seem to think, see:
http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/forth_...
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/de/worterbuch/englisch/and-so-on
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/de/worterbuch/englisch/and-so-on
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/and+so+on
https://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/so+on+and+so+forth.html

Unfortunately, I have found no dictionary explanations for preferential usage. I am inclined to think, however, that English-speakers are more likely to use "and so on" or "and so forth" when they are speaking, --for  unless one is reading from a manuscript, saying "et cetera" sounds rather stilted -- but they spontaneously choose "etc." when they are writing, since there is no convenient abbreviation for either of the English phrases.
Antwort: 
Kein Komma vor usw. oder etc. im DE / aber mit Komma bei EN oder FR vor dem etc.  #873084
von amalgame (CH), 2017-06-28, 10:58  like dislike  Spam?  
... gehört da noch als Fussnote hin.
Antwort: 
BHM: Ich weiß nicht, ob man so suchen kann ... in jedem Fall jedoch bis zur letzten Seite durchklicken  #873085
von Wenz (DE), 2017-06-28, 11:00  like dislike  Spam?  
Das muß man beim Googlen immer so machen.
für "Haus""etc." finde ich
Google
Finde ich: Seite 28 von 271 Ergebnissen (0,72 Sekunden)

für "Haus""usw." finde ich
Seite 43 von 426 Ergebnissen (0,63 Sekunden)

Was häufiger ist, das weiß ich auch nicht. Eigentlich haben wir hier immer usw. verwendet (gab es da nicht früher mal eine Diskussion?)
Nach Google Ngram Viewer Corpus Deutsch halten sich usw. und etc. die Waage.
usw. = 0.0080... %
etc. = 0.0074... %
Antwort: 
Google's Ngram  #873087
von geo255 (US), 2017-06-28, 11:30  like dislike  Spam?  
shows that "usw" is used far more than "etc" in German language books.  Its use peaked around 1918 and has declined since then but still far exceeds "etc" (which has remained fairly constant since 1800:

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=usw.&year_start=1...
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2017-06-28, 11:34  like dislike  Spam?  
 #873088
4;amalgame, there's not so fixed a rule about whether you always use a comma before "etc." in British English (or at least there isn't based Oxford's examples).
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/etc.
‘Many stage characters have mothers, brothers, etc. who appear on stage often in the same scene.’
‘Perhaps if they had done some research prior to giving up their jobs, lives etc. they might have been better off.’
‘I came home via work to collect car and laptops, etc. for the office in Darlington.’
‘You call her back, express regrets etc. and organise for her to pick up a house key from another friend.’
‘There is no need for householders to dump items of furniture etc. in back streets or elsewhere.’
‘Anyone who cannot make it for the meal is welcome to come for the dancing, etc., afterwards.’
Oxford says:
In a list of three or more items, use a comma before a final extension phrase such as etc., and so forth, and the like:
potatoes, swede, carrots, turnips, etc. candles, incense, vestments, and the like
http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2015/01/video-oxford-comma/
Antwort: 
geo255: Ich hatte die Einstellungen case-insensitive und corpus German  #873091
von Wenz (DE), 2017-06-28, 11:52  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
Wenz  #873095
von geo255 (US), 2017-06-28, 12:02  like dislike  Spam?  
Good point, Wenz.

If we make the Ngram query case insensitive, we see that , by 2000, 'etc' and 'usw' are practical equal in German book usage.  The peak usage for 'usw' occurred around 1918 and it has been declining since:

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=usw.%2C+etc.&case...
Antwort: 
von amalgame (CH), 2017-06-28, 12:07  like dislike  Spam?  
 #873099
4;windfall, yes, there had been a discussion like that on an entry and here somewhere, therefore we agreed not to reopen in EN but be cross in DE and FR or every language, where the rule should be clear.
Chat:     
A greener field  #873110
von Catesse (AU), 2017-06-28, 14:13  like dislike  Spam?  
This does not matter much to me any more, but I wanted to clear the problem from my mind. I have chanced across another site where I am learning so much and having so much fun that sometimes I have to pinch myself to be sure that I haven't died and gone to Heaven. I have been spending some five hours a day on it, which does not leave me much time for dict. I shall keep looking in, but I shall not be doing much unless the Polish sites experience a miraculous resurrection.

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