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Frage:
jene/this  
von dvander3 (US), 2017-12-28, 17:50  like dislike  Spam?  
There is only one entry for "jene" now: "those".  But "those" is always plural.  I often see "jene" translated to "this", so I suggest it be added as a new entry.
Antwort: 
Singular: jener, jene, jenes  -  that  ;  Plural: jene  -  those  #884662
von RedRufus (DE), Last modified: 2017-12-28, 19:13  like dislike  Spam?  
Singular: dieser, diese, dieses  -  this   ;  Plural:  diese  -  these
Antwort: 
As to idiomatic usage, that does not invariably translate into jenes etc.  #884665
von Proteus-, 2017-12-28, 19:27  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.18....
Antwort: 
There is no entry for jene - that either...  #884666
von dvander3 (US), Last modified: 2017-12-29, 19:54  like dislike  Spam?  
Ja. Dann soll es auch einen Eintrag jene - that geben.  Aber ich stimme nicht zu, as nur "dies-" in "this" übersetzt werden kann.

Aber als ich mir jene Frage stellte, war keiner da, um sie zu beantworten.

But by the time I asked this question, there was no one around to answer it.

Sometimes both that and this are acceptable.
Antwort: 
die Grenzen sind fließend, aber generell gilt:  #884667
von RedRufus (DE), 2017-12-28, 19:37  like dislike  Spam?  
wo ich den Finger drauflegen kann, was gerade passiert ist, was ich gesagt habe: this, these
was weiter entfernt ist, was früher passiert ist, was jemand anders gesagt hat: that, those
Chat:     
von dvander3 (US), Last modified: 2017-12-29, 19:55  like dislike  Spam?  
 #884668
Ja es gibt einen feinen Unterschied zwischen this und that.  Aber manchmal muss man einfach eins auswählen.  Ich habe sehr oft es gesehen, dass "jene" in "this" (oder "that") übersetzt worden ist.  Sie sind absolut gute Übersetzungen.  Machmal kingt "this" noch besser als "that" für jene.
Antwort: 
Es hat mich verwirrt, nur jene - those zu sehen.  #884671
von dvander3 (US), 2017-12-28, 20:26  like dislike  Spam?  
Es soll mindestens jene - that (und jenes that) geben, weil es einen Eintrag jener - that gibt.  Warum nicht die andere zwei Flexionen?
Antwort: 
Will jene = that be added?  #884675
von dvander3 (US), Last modified: 2017-12-28, 23:40  like dislike  Spam?  
If jene - that and jenes - that are not going to be added, I'd appreciate an expaination as to why.  Having that translation would have saved me a lot of time.  Since jener - that is already an entry, I don't understand why the other two forms of the word are not.  Not having any entry for jene with any singular meaning is confusing.  Jene does not only mean those.

4;Proteus: Although that doesn't invariably translate to jenes, an enormous number of other words don't invariably translate to one specific word either... That's why most words have many possible translations listed.  Also, I'm a native English speaker, so I'm more interested in translating jene to that, not the other way around.  Not everyone is always translating from English to German.
Antwort: 
Irregular use of the words that and this is a blatant reminder that English is not someone's first language  #884676
von dvander3 (US), 2017-12-29, 00:04  like dislike  Spam?  
For people who want to master English or German as a second language and sound natural, they should know different possible translations of pronouns.  Learning a single tranlation for each demonstrative pronoun is a bad idea.
Chat:     
(23:40) You do appreciate, I hope, that translation always works both ways round or it does not work at all  #884694
von Proteus-, 2017-12-29, 14:30  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.54....
Which is why good, well educated / academically trained translators, are at least bilingual and meant to be so.
Chat:     
Yes, translation CAN work both ways, but that doesn't mean that it invariably translates 1-1 regardless of context.  #884712
von dvander3 (US), Last modified: 2017-12-29, 19:50  like dislike  Spam?  
I'm still confusied about your use of the word invariably.  It sounded to me like you were saying a word must invariably translate to another word to be listed on dict.cc.  It obviously can't work this way or a lot of words will be missing.

I thought that since you specificly stated "that does not invariably translate into jenes" you were only thinking about going from English to German.  If you are going from English to German you might not appreciate listing the other inflections because they seem so obvious to you as a native speaker.  Otherwise, I don't really understand what your point of view is.  Do you think that jener - that is a bad translation?  It is already in dict.cc.  If you don't think it a bad translation, why shouldn't jene - that be listed too?
Antwort: 
eine 1 : 1 Übersetzung gibt es nicht -  #884718
von RedRufus (DE), 2017-12-29, 22:06  like dislike  Spam?  
- Es kommt darauf an, was der Sprecher sagen WILL : Wenn er etwas stärker auf sich selbst beziehen will, wenn er etwas zeitlich oder räumlich näher rücken möchte, sagt er this / these; sonst that / those.
Der Übersetzer muss sich in den Sprecher hineinversetzen und aus dem Kontext erschließen, was er sagen will. Feste Regeln gibt es da nicht.
Antwort: 
jene is already listed in dict.cc   dict.cc: jener  #884725
von Proteus-, 2017-12-30, 01:11  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.54....
PRON   jener | jene | jenes | jene
jener > yonder {pron} [archaic or dialect] 400
jener > that {pron} 189
jener > yon {pron} [archaic]  75
jener > yond {pron} [obs., Middle English] [that one]
jener > of those {pron}
Antwort: 
Quibbling with the entry dict.cc: jener  #884726
von Proteus-, 2017-12-30, 01:27  like dislike  Spam?  194.118.54....
While the synonyms given for jener are at least odd
[SYNO   der | dieser | jener | solcher | welcher],

the following entry is plain wrong:
[2 Wörter
like that > wie jener] Actually, it means wie das / so and very occasionally may mean wie jenes ... (neuter!)
This entry would also make just like that mean gerade wie jener when in fact it means genau so
wie jener needs a noun in English: like that tree / fence / dog / man or another pronoun like that one.
Chat:     
What good is having jene only under jener?  #884802
von dvander3 (US), 2017-12-30, 20:23  like dislike  Spam?  
Shouldn't one be able to search for jene to find its translation?  There are plenty of congugations, plurals, inflections etc listed separately, thankfully.  For example, search for seine and you can find his.  Much better than having to look up the dictionary form of each inflection of a word separately and then searching for it.  I don't know why you would want the interface to work that way.
Chat:     
Thank you to whoever put jene - that in.  #884809
von dvander3 (US), Last modified: 2017-12-30, 21:13  like dislike  Spam?  
Wir könnten auch jenes - that und jenem - that eingeben.
Antwort: 
... aber dafür haben wir doch die Inflections!  #887609
von Hilli (DE), 2018-02-25, 01:12  like dislike  Spam?  
... das sollte eigentlich reichen.
 

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