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vowel sound  
von Windfall (GB), 2018-07-20, 11:11  like dislike  Spam?  
I need to express in German that is is important to know if a word begins with a vowel sound or not, as this determines whether we use "a" or "an" in front of it. I looked up "vowel sound" in, and it says "Vokal" which is also the word for vowel. Not all words that begin with a vowel sound begin with a vowel and vice versa, e.g. "one" begins with a vowel, but not a vowel sound. "Honest" begins with a vowel sound, but not a vowel. How do I express this in German? So "You're a one" (not "you're an one") and "she's an honest woman" (not "she's a honest woman").
Bei "honest" kann ich Dir helfen: stummes H  #894149
von parker11 (DE), 2018-07-20, 11:16  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort:"a"-un...  #894150
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2018-07-20, 11:31  like dislike  Spam?  
stumme Konsonanten .... ??
von Windfall (GB), 2018-07-20, 11:32  like dislike  Spam?  
Thanks, parker. Unfortunately I don't think I can use that to express when they need to use an "an" and when an "a" without an incredibly long explanation> How do they explain it to you at school? Or do they just lie and pretend it matches up perfectly with vowels, rather than vowel sounds?
vowel sound  #894152
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2018-07-20, 11:42  like dislike  Spam?  
more complicated ....
spoken vowel ....
a ewe lamb / a union / a used tissue / a one-legged person .....
a herb / an herb [Am]
As far as I remember, they told us in school to read it out loud for oneself.  #894154
von parker11 (DE), Last modified: 2018-07-20, 11:48  like dislike  Spam?  
The two words have to sound like one word, without the slightest pause in between. It has to do with tongue and palate, and it's really hard to explain in short. I might suggest that Halmafelix would have an idea. He is an absolute pro with pronunciation and its reasons.
Vokallaut <> Konsonatenlaut (?)  #894155
von Squirrel-quattro (UN), 2018-07-20, 11:48  like dislike  Spam?  
von Windfall (GB), 2018-07-20, 11:50  like dislike  Spam?  
Thanks, all. I agree, you have to say it out loud to know if it has a vowel sound at the start. I guess there's no easy way to say it. Perhaps "wenn der Laut am Anfang vom Wort wie ein Vokal klingt, dann muss man "an" benutzen und wenn er wie ein Konsonant klingt, muss man "a" benutzen, unabhängig davon, ob das Wort eigentlich mit einem Konsonant oder einem Vokal anfängt"
von Windfall (GB), 2018-07-20, 11:52  like dislike  Spam?  
4;sfl, it's very easy to say in English. That's why we have the term "vowel sound" and why it doesn't mean the same as "vowel". You use "an" if the following word begins with a vowel sound and "a" if it doesn't. I suppose this also leaves the question of whether it's OK to leave "vowel sound" - "Vokal" in the dict, as they clearly don't mean quite the same thing. I suspect we need some square brackets here.
von Squirrel-quattro (UN), 2018-07-20, 12:08  like dislike  Spam?  
Wikipedia(DE): Vokal:
"Vokallaute (oder Vokale; Terminus überschneidet sich mit der Bedeutung „Vokalbuchstabe“) sind Phone, also Einheiten der gesprochenen Sprache. Buchstaben der Schriftsprache wie A, E, I, O, U sind Vokalbuchstaben, sie werden allgemeinsprachlich, so auch im Duden[1], aber meist ebenfalls „Vokale“ genannt."

Google: "Vokallaut" englisch
von Windfall (GB), 2018-07-20, 12:19  like dislike  Spam?  
Perhaps it only needs disambiguation then. It seems to me that English clearly differentiates between vowels (the letters A, E, I, O and U (and, depending on your point of view, possibly Y)) and "vowel sounds" (phonemes that sound like vowels, whether the word in question is spelled with a vowel or not).
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2018-07-20, 13:55  like dislike  Spam?  
4;Squirrel, were you suggesting "Vokallaut" was a good match for "vowel sound"? I read the bit that said "Überschneidungen" and I thought "oh no, Squirrel's they don't have a seprate word for it". I now realise that might not have been what you were saying, especially as I only just noticed you 11:48 post.
"an" vor vokalischem Anlaut  #894164
von RedRufus (DE), Last modified: 2018-07-20, 14:28  like dislike  Spam?  
oder: ... vor vokalischem Beginn eines Wortes
von Windfall (GB), 2018-07-20, 14:31  like dislike  Spam?  
Thanks, RedRufus, that sounds perfect.
I've just noticed that Langenscheidt translates "vowel sound" as "Vokallaut". Would people support replacing the dict's current entry of "Vokal" for "vowel sound" with "Vokallaut"? And if not, what about a disambiguation with [Vokallaut]?
Both. I'd suggest a new entry, plus disambiguation of the old entry.  #894168
von parker11 (DE), Last modified: 2018-07-20, 15:42  like dislike  Spam?  
von Windfall (GB), 2018-07-20, 16:23  like dislike  Spam?  
Thanks, Parker. I've added "Vokallaut". I'll do the disambiguation after that's got through (so I can point to the entry for support).

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