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Frage:
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von nici, 2005-11-27, 14:12  like dislike  Spam?  195.93.60...
wie oft warst du schon in England?
Antwort: 
How many times have you already been to Britain / visited Britain?  #89606
von bugfoot (DE/GB), 2005-11-27, 14:13  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
Britain is not England  #89607
von Kornelius, 2005-11-27, 14:23  like dislike  Spam?  62.104.113....
Encyclopedia Britannica: GREAT BRITAIN, also called BRITAIN, island lying off the western coast of Europe and consisting of England, Scotland, and Wales. The term is often used as a synonym for the United Kingdom , which also includes Northern Ireland and a number of offshore islands.
Antwort: 
BRITAIN IS NOT ENGLAND  #89610
von jim, 2005-11-27, 14:43  like dislike  Spam?  81.76.86....
Agreed. I am an Englishman. My national flag is the Cross of St George, red on a white background. I have very little feeling for the "Union Jack."  Increasingly we wish an end to the "United Kingdom" (a misnomer) and Great Britain. The Welsh and Scots want to govern themselves and lots of English people agree with this aim.  Even the Cornish want out.
Antwort: 
Strong feelings, obviously. But even the British can get confused...  #89611
von Kornelius, 2005-11-27, 14:56  like dislike  Spam?  62.104.113....
The Guardian, 17.5.05 :
What's in a name?
The name of our country on British passports is "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". This refers to the union of what were once four separate countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland (though most of Ireland is now independent). Most people, however, say, "Britain" or "Great Britain". Usually "Britain" refers to the mainland and "Great Britain" includes Northern Ireland, and also the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, who have different institutions of government. But even the British can get confused with these different names and usages.
Antwort: 
oh come on  #89612
von bugfoot (DE/GB), 2005-11-27, 15:19  like dislike  Spam?  
okay, didnt think of this difference, ur right.
but honestly, if u cant translate this rather simple sentence, i guess ur most likely to not distinguish between "england" and "britain" either.

and as far as i can tell, many germans usually refer to britain as "england" - may it be wrong or not
Antwort: 
Ich glaube, bugfoot  hat gar nicht unrecht. Was Deutsche i. d. R. unter "England" verstehen, ist am besten (Mittelweg) mit "Britain" zu übersetzen!  #89613
von Proteus, 2005-11-27, 15:29  like dislike  Spam?  194.166.224...
Antwort: 
ihr könnt ja mal versuchen, einen Bayern einen Preußen zu nennen...  #89620
von Kornelius, 2005-11-27, 16:58  like dislike  Spam?  62.104.117....
Antwort: 
Britain and England  #89625
von Dwight (US), 2005-11-27, 17:54  like dislike  Spam?  
Great Britain=the island. Brittany ("little Britain") is in northwestern France. UK=the increasingly federalized entity of the countries of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, each of which, except for England, now exercises some powers of self-government. Similarly, Canada, the USA, Spain and the Bundesrepublik Deutschland are organized federally, each with component provinces, states, or Länder. People who still say "England" to mean Britain or the UK are politically naive. It's tactless!
Antwort: 
Britain and England  #89645
von Proteus, 2005-11-27, 20:16  like dislike  Spam?  194.166.197....
I should think it is just as well to differentiate between usage in the English-speaking world and German usage.

In the former, the differentiation insisted upon ought to be observed. But it has little or no bearing on the latter. In the German-speaking world, 'England' is 'pars pro toto' for Britain. Similarly, an 'Engländer' would have to be rendered in such cases as a 'Briton'; 'die Engländer' > 'the British'.

Dwight, Jim and Kornelius do not deal with the reality of GERMAN USAGE at all.

bugfoot, on the other hand, took it into account. Which is why her translation is, in my view, perfect.
Antwort: 
let's settle it this way:  #89656
von Kornelius, 2005-11-27, 20:57  like dislike  Spam?  62.104.117....
you can call an Englishman British, but never (unless you are sure he is ) a Briton English.
There is still a lot of hatred of e.g. the Scots towards the English; I know a lot of people who leave a party if an Englishman turns up, who will never shake hands with one etc. In the wrong company you virtually risk your life just by a slip of your tongue!
So I accept bugfoot's translation because she employs the general term "Britain", not the other way round
Antwort: 
Translation, Kornelius, translation from German into English: Why do you refuse to discuss GERMAN USAGE (which is what has to be TRANSLATED)?  #89681
von Proteus, 2005-11-27, 23:35  like dislike  Spam?  194.166.197....
Antwort: 
Agree with Bugfoot and Proteus:  synecdoche*  #89698
von Bernie, 2005-11-28, 00:43  like dislike  Spam?  58.105.96....
Except in the narrow context of some sports (notably soccer) Germans normally say England when they mean Britain, UK etc..

Same as Holland for Netherlands in English (British and American) usage (and in German usage , I believe)

"The Official Holland Site - Netherlands Board of Tourism"

How did the song go?
Wir marschieren gegen Eng-ge-land (wenn es langt)  :-)

synechdoche:
syn·ec·do·che n. A figure of speech in which a part is used for the whole (as hand for sailor), the whole for a part (as the law for police officer), the specific for the general (as cutthroat for assassin), the general for the specific (as thief for pickpocket), or the material for the thing from which it is made (as steel for sword).  AHD
Antwort: 
Kontext?  #89699
von Dwight (US), 2005-11-28, 00:51  like dislike  Spam?  
Proteus's point is well taken. Germans, speaking to each other, often do not make the distinction. Similarly, before the breakup of the USSR, most Americans used "Russians" and "Soviets" interchangeably; the notion that the Soviet Union also included Armenians, Georgians, Ukrainians, Tajiks, etc., barely penetrated the popular consciousness. However, a translator translating the word "Russian" from Am. E into Russian, for a potential Russian reader, generally still had to figure out which meaning was intended and choose the correct term in cases that might have caused confusion. In the present case, what is the point of learning English in school if the meanings of words, as used in English, will not be taught?

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