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von Windfall (GB), 2018-11-27, 14:37  like dislike  Spam?  
I need to know how this term is used in Switzerland. It would make sense if this referred to some sort of science. Duden says: physikalisch-chemischer Teil des naturwissenschaftlichen Unterrichts an Schulen
What does "physikalisch-chemisch" mean here? Is it physics and chemistry, i.e. I can translate "Naturlehre" as "physics and chemistry"?
I looked them up in the dict and found "physico-chemical", but I'm not sure what "physico-chemical science" is and it doesn't google well
Google: "physico-chemical science"
Why not simply "natural science" ?  #900796
von romy (CZ/GB), 2018-11-27, 15:09  like dislike  Spam?  
I could imagine that the "physics" here are teachings about lightning, planets, the water systems, the photogenesis in plants, etc. and the "chemistry" relates to the metabolism in living cells and alike. What they certainly do NOT mean is the physics of man-made machines or the chemistry happening in pharmaceutical laboratories.
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2018-11-27, 15:13  like dislike  Spam?  
Thanks, Romy. It just seems a bit strange that Duden highlights physikalisch-chemisch for this when for Naturwissenschaft (which you can stranslate as "natural science", "physical science" or just "science") Duden says:
Gesamtheit der exakten Wissenschaften, die die verschiedenen Gebiete der Natur (1) zum Gegenstand haben
einzelne Wissenschaft, die ein bestimmtes Gebiet der Natur (1) zum Gegenstand hat

You'd think if they were the same thing they'd have more similar descriptions and also that "Naturwissenschaft" would be listed as a synonym of "Naturlehre"
Naturlehre  #900803
von LookDontSee22, 2018-11-27, 15:43  like dislike  Spam?  88.217.181....
Naturlehre in der Schweiz umfasst Physik/Chemie/Biologie (in Bayern kürzen Schüler das Fach mit PCB ab).Es geht dabei nicht einfach um die Addition dreier naturwissenschaftlicher Disziplinen, sondern auch disziplimübergreifender Zusammenhänge, z,B. Wasser als Lebensraum, im menschlichen Körper, Wasser und Naturkatastropen. Der im Link enthaltene Lehrplan Naturlehre (Schweiz) enthält die behandelten Themen (es genügt die ersten 6 Seiten zu überfliegen), um zu verstehen, dass eine Gleichsetzung mit Naturwissenschaft verfehlt ist:
von Windfall (GB), 2018-11-27, 15:45  like dislike  Spam?  
Thanks, LookDontSee. I think in that case I'm going to translate it as "science", as it sounds like that would be the equivalent school subject in other countries
von romy (CZ/GB), 2018-11-27, 17:45  like dislike  Spam?  
Yep, that's correct. My daughter who is a British high-school student, also agrees with "science" if it is the school subject. When I went to school in Austria and Germany, we called this subject "Naturkunde". As for the terminus technicus, I am not quite sure whether there is really a difference between Naturkunde/-lehre and Naturwissenschaft, as LookDontSee believes.
von Windfall (GB), 2018-11-27, 18:12  like dislike  Spam?  
Thanks, Romy
Windfall / romy etc. confirmed  #900844
von Proteus-, 2018-11-27, 22:19  like dislike  Spam?  62.47.203....
Erstellen 34 Begriffe
NHL Starter-Unit 6

favourite subject > Lieblingsfach
science > Naturlehre
music > Musik
von MichaelK (US), 2018-11-27, 23:26  like dislike  Spam?  
"Environmental Science" in many U.S. places of learning. Wikipedia(EN): Environmental_science
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2018-11-28, 11:08  like dislike  Spam?  
Thanks, Proteus and Michael. This feels a bit like trying to translate the GCSE subjects double integrated science and single integrated science. Fundamentally they both just mean science, but the double gets you 2 GCSEs and the single gets you one, and the integrated means they include physics, biology and chemistry, rather than these being taught as separate subjects in which you would get separate GCSEs. Actually, the three subjects are still taught separately in separate lessons, and the particular joy of it at my school was that you only got 2 science teachers for the double science who had to cover the 3 subjects between them. So I was taught chemistry by a physics teacher. She then went on maternity leave and was replaced by a chemistry teacher who had to teach us physics, as the physics teacher had covered all the chemistry first and left the physics parts to do.
von MichaelK (US), 2018-11-28, 14:07  like dislike  Spam?  
Interesting, Windfall. I remember being astounded when seeing my U.S. high school's chemistry and physics student labs for the first time. Back in Germany, it was all lectures, with the teacher sometimes conducting an experiment in front of the class.

On the forum question: There's an important difference between the subject 'science' and the Swiss understanding of Naturlehre. In the Swiss text linked by LookDon'tSee21 at 15:43, you'll find this in the introduction:  

Im Zentrum des Naturlehre-Unterricht werden zwar wie bisher das Entwickeln des naturwissenschaftlichen Denkens und die Pflege der Beziehung zur Natur stehen. Die Sorge um unsere Umwelt erfordert aber zusätzlich neue Schwerpunkte. Die Förderung der Erlebnisfähigkeit, die Bildung positiver Werthaltungen,die Erziehung zu Verantwortung sind anzustrebende Ziele.

Addressing our responsibilities to the world we live in was never part of a classical science curriculum. But giving those responsibilities some serious thought is at the foundation of what's called 'environmental science.'
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2018-11-28, 14:45  like dislike  Spam?  
I talked to my Swiss conversation partner about it. Basically, she said what you learn at school can't be called "Naturwissenschaft" because that's a university discipline, which is why they call it "Naturlehre", but that it is indeed science - albeit science focused on the environment and the human body. She also thought it maybe included some non-science information, although she was a bit hazy on that. I get the impression that "science" was very much the correct translation in my text and that no precise equivalent exists for it in any other country.

I think "environmental science" would be misunderstood in Britain, as that sounds like a university subject to me and it also makes me wonder why a school student isn't taking the normal broad range of science subjects and has decided to focus on the environment, instead of making me realise that the curriculum planners have decided that Swiss schoolchildren are to focus their science learning on the environment (something that sounds eminently sensible to me as a European, but possibly sounds like a gross breach of human liberty and an attempt at indoctrination to American ears).
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2018-11-28, 15:06  like dislike  Spam?  
Well, "science focused on the environment and the human body" sure sounds like "environmental science" to me. I think the Swiss text I mentioned shows that the difference between Wissenschaft and Naturlehre is the exact same difference you'll find between  "science" and "environmental science."

Of course, both are "science," so that'll work in any case. You're absolutely right about that.
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2018-11-28, 15:22  like dislike  Spam?  
Is environmental science a school subject in the USA? And can it represent the only option that children have to learn science in their school? And does it include the study of the human body (which Naturlehre does)? Those are my big problems with it in UK English. Firstly, it doesn't sound like a subject you'd do before you were 14 to me (and according to my Swiss conversation partner that is the key time when you'd do it, after 15 you'd do something else), let alone a child's sole option to learn science at school.
Secondly, if someone said to me "I'm doing environmental science at school", I would immediately assume that they had rejected other science options and chosen specifically to do environmental science. I would not in the least assume that this was their gateway to all other science options later. Thirdly, I would assume that the science related solely to the environment and not to things like the human body.
von MichaelK (US), 2018-11-28, 16:14  like dislike  Spam?  
As far as I know, the hard sciences are still alive and well at most U.S. schools. A friend of mine teaches chemistry at a local high school and she does not address the environment. "Environmental science" is set apart from the those hard science courses in her school. It is not a replacement.
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2018-11-28, 16:23  like dislike  Spam?  
I think it would be a misleading translation, then. It's been a while since I was at school, but as far as I know, UK schools still teach chemistry, physics and biology, they just label the whole lot "science" and send you to lessons labelled "science"  until you're 16, where you could be learning any of those (or possibly anything else that comes under the heading of "science" and is on the curriculum). When I was at school it often wasn't specified which science we were learning in any particular science lesson (sometimes it was obvious, sometimes less so). At 16 you can pick science subjects with individual names and study those for A level (our exams at 18) if you want to take sciences. Environmental science sounds like a hard science to me, just not a traditional science. Wikipedia(EN): Hard_and_soft_science

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