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Frage:
Erstausbildung (Switzerland)  
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2019-01-21, 11:29  like dislike  Spam?  
I'm trying to work out what the "Erstausbildung" means in the context of child support. My text is about Switzerland, but Germany appears to have similar rules. I found this in Wikipedia about Germany:  In der Regel müssen die Eltern Unterhalt zahlen bis das Kind seine Erstausbildung abgeschlossen hat. Dabei ist bei einem Studium nicht die Regelstudienzeit von Bedeutung, sondern die übliche Dauer des Studienganges. Den Eltern steht zu, sich Prüfungsnachweise und Scheine der Kinder zeigen zu lassen.
I get the impression that this Erstausbildung refers to all the education that a child/young adult gets before starting a career (e.g. until the end of their university degree or appreticeship). I would say "until the child has left education", but I also get the impression that a PhD wouldn't be included in this, even if the PhD were done straight after the initial degree. Have I understood this correctly and does anyone know a clear way of expressing this in English?
Antwort: 
Erstausbildung  #903249
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2019-01-21, 11:41  like dislike  Spam?  
PHD - not be included
It's only the "very first step", apprenticeship, university first degree. Going further - PHD - your parents do not have to support you.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2019-01-21, 11:43  like dislike  Spam?  
 #903250
Thanks, sfl. I guess "until the completion of a first university degree or other initial education". I think English speakers would understand that to mean "until the completion of a first university degree or whatever the child does as education in place of going to university"
Antwort: 
or  initial qualification  ?  #903251
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2019-01-21, 11:45  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2019-01-21, 11:46  like dislike  Spam?  
 #903252
I don't know about that. Presumably it's possibly to fail your degree/apprenticeship etc. and the parent doesn't then need to pay for your second attempt.
Chat:     
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2019-01-21, 11:48  like dislike  Spam?  
 #903253
True enough
Antwort: 
The parents have to pay for one and only one Ausbilung, not for any further qualification  #903254
von RedRufus (DE), 2019-01-21, 11:56  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2019-01-21, 12:00  like dislike  Spam?  
 #903255
So first degree or other initial education? I can't think of any other words to convey this clearly in English. It seems not to be part of our culture in Britain, where maintenance supports seem to stop when a child reaches the end of secondary education: https://www.gov.uk/when-child-maintenance-payments-stop
Antwort: 
the first occupational / vocational qualification  #903256
von RedRufus (DE), Last modified: 2019-01-21, 12:04  like dislike  Spam?  
Antwort: 
Yes  #903257
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2019-01-21, 12:03  like dislike  Spam?  
one OR the other
maybe   first qulification  ?
Chat:     
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2019-01-21, 12:05  like dislike  Spam?  
 #903258
4;RedRufus  -  you are missing the   first/initial ...
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2019-01-21, 12:08  like dislike  Spam?  
 #903259
4;sfl, your first qualification in the UK is your GCSEs, and also, as we already discussed above, you don't think the child can resit as many times as they like until they finally gain the qualification
4;Redrufus, that would mean NOT your first degree. Those aren't really considered occupational or vocational qualifications here - on the other hand, several post-degree qualifications are considered occupational or vocational qualifications, e.g. post-graduate training to become an accountant or lawyer.
Anglophone countries have a very different view of education and qualifications from German-speaking countries.
Antwort: 
(Erst-)Ausbildung refers to an occupational / vocational training only ...  #903260
von RedRufus (DE), Last modified: 2019-01-21, 12:24  like dislike  Spam?  
... not to (school)education. That would be Schul(aus)bildung
Antwort: 
von sunfunlili (DE/GB), 2019-01-21, 12:19  like dislike  Spam?  
 #903261
As you said at  11:43
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2019-01-21, 12:26  like dislike  Spam?  
 #903262
Thanks, Redrufus.
That quite simply doesn't include first degrees in the UK. However, you could say "the end of initial post-secondary education". Alternatively you could potentially say "until the end of initial tertiary education", but I'm not sure if apprenticeships count as "tertiary education" or not, so I find "post-secondary" safer (even though Wikipedia says it's a synonym of "tertiary"). I think
initial post-secondary education is probably a good match at least for UK readers (even though it's a mouthful)
Antwort: 
initial education in English  #903271
von Proteus-, 2019-01-21, 13:20  like dislike  Spam?  193.83.5....
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2019-01-21, 13:23  like dislike  Spam?  
 #903272
Thanks, Proteus. I wasn't expecting there to be a definition like that available for English. That certainly solves that problem (while sadly not being comprehensible to most non-specialists, but you can't have everything)
Chat:     
Please enter vocab into dict.cc  #903280
von Proteus-, 2019-01-21, 16:59  like dislike  Spam?  193.83.5....

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