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English-German Translation of
Datenanwendung Austrian

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Frage:
Datenanwendung (Austrian data protection)  
von Windfall (GB), 2020-09-16, 16:27  like dislike  Spam?  
Datenanwendung seems to be a term used in Austrian data protection texts. I found a definition of it here: https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/lexicon/D/Seite.990089.html
Eine Datenanwendung liegt dann vor, wenn zur Erreichung eines inhaltlich bestimmten Zweckes personenbezogene Daten zur Gänze oder auch nur teilweise automationsunterstützt geordnet sind. Sie muss jedoch nicht notwendigerweise mit einem bestimmten Programm ident sein.
Here's an another explanation: Eine „Datenanwendung“ im Sinne der DSGVO hat nichts mit Technik zu tun. Eine Datenanwendung liegt vor, wenn der Verantwortliche personenbezogene Daten für einen gewissen Zweck verarbeitet.
My sentence is similar to (but is not) : Zu welchem Zweck werden die Datenanwendungen betrieben?
Proz says data application or use of personal data. I'm confused. In my sentence "data processing" would make more sense as a translation than either "data application" or "use of personal data", but I'm not sure if "data processing" is an acceptable translation. Can anyone help
Antwort: 
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2020-09-16, 17:34  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922108
Since Datenanwendung clearly refers to personal data, the word 'personal' or one of its synonyms needs to be in the translation as far as I can see. 'Data processing' refers to computer technology. The second explanation in your post explicitly states that Datenanwendung does not refer to technology. I think "use of personal data" is a good translation.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2020-09-16, 17:36  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922109
Thanks, MichaelK. I still find it weird with "betrieben". So would you translate  "Zu welchem Zweck werden die Datenanwendungen betrieben?" as "For what purpose is the personal data being used"? "For what purpose is the use of personal data being operated?" sounds very odd to me.
Antwort: 
von MichaelK (US), 2020-09-16, 18:02  like +1 dislike  Spam?  
 #922110
I agree, the betrieben sounds a bit odd since ...anwendung already indicates the action. I think "What is the purpose of such use of personal data?" gets the thought across. It's a given that personal data are being collected and stored, and now the questioner wants to know what the purpose of this effort is.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2020-09-16, 18:03  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922111
Actually, MichaelK, I've just realised that it says it doesn't necessarily involve technology rather than that it excludes the use of technology, I guess like interpreting can involve processing/using personal data without any technology at all - and translation foesn't need to involve a computer to count as data processing
Antwort: 
von MichaelK (US), 2020-09-16, 18:15  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922113
I understand Eine „Datenanwendung“ im Sinne der DSGVO hat nichts mit Technik zu tun as meaning that the term Datenanwendung (use of personal data) as outlined by the GDPR has nothing to do with technology," i.e., does not refer to running personal data through a computer ("data processing"). I'm fairly sure the questioner wants a general response, like "academic research," " marketing," "city planning" and such.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2020-09-16, 18:29  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922114
4;MichaelK, because of "Eine Datenanwendung liegt dann vor, wenn zur Erreichung eines inhaltlich bestimmten Zweckes personenbezogene Daten zur Gänze oder auch nur teilweise automationsunterstützt geordnet sind"
I understand "Eine „Datenanwendung“ im Sinne der DSGVO hat nichts mit Technik zu tun"  to mean that it has nothing to do with technology in the sense that being a Datenanwendung doesn't depend on whether or what technology is involved. Also, the GDPR (=General Data Protection Regulation = DSGVO) doesn't mention Datenwanwendung once, so my guess is that this is an Austrian term for something that the GDPR does refer to :)
Antwort: 
a personal data application  -  i.e. working with personal data by processing them  #922116
von RedRufus (DE), Last modified: 2020-09-16, 20:08  like dislike  Spam?  
it's a programme, mostly (but not necessarily so) by electronic means
Antwort: 
von MichaelK (US), Last modified: 2020-09-16, 21:10  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922117
Yes, I think we all agree that data are being processed electronically. But the word ...anwendung points more to the purpose of processing these data. I can process meat to make sausage, but if someone asks me about Anwendung, they're asking about what I'm going to do with that sausage.

I think "application" for Zweck  is very good, so 'personal data application' for Datenanwendung gets my vote. Given the context, I don't think it could be confused with one of those "apps" people have on their phone.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2020-09-16, 21:14  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922118
Thanks, RedRufus and MichaelK. "Data application" doesn't make sense to me in this context, but perhaps that's a UK/US difference or perhaps I'm missing something. Certainly it was one of Proz's suggestions
Chat:     
von MichaelK (US), 2020-09-16, 21:27  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922119
"Application" in its definition of "the action of putting something into operation."  An example phrase is "the application of general rules to particular cases." In this context, the phrase would be "the application of personal data to particular ends."
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2020-09-16, 21:33  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922120
So: To what end is the (personal) data being applied? Or possibly: For what purpose is the (personal) data application? I can see no improvement over (personal) data use here. In fact, the version with "application" sounds less clear to me
Antwort: 
it doesn't matter to what end, any end will do. The crucial factor is that the personal data are processed ...  #922121
von RedRufus (DE), 2020-09-16, 21:40  like dislike  Spam?  
... and an application is used to process personal data
Antwort: 
von MichaelK (US), 2020-09-16, 21:48  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922122
Agree, "use" is fine.

I liked "application" better only because it sounds officialese. But now I see RedRufus uses it to mean the computer application used to process those personal data, which I don't think is what's meant here. I'm out of here, need to do home-owner's chores. Big mistake, shoulda kept on renting.  :-)
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2020-09-16, 21:58  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922123
4;MichaelK,  have fun and thanks for your help.
4;RefRufus, this is definitely not an app. The reason we keep talking about purpose is because we're trying to translate this sentence: Zu welchem Zweck werden die Datenanwendungen betrieben?
It's not my sentence,  but it has one of the problems that my sentence does!
Antwort: 
Daten kann man nicht "anwenden", nur ein Werkzeug. z.B. eine Machine, ein Programm, Vernunft etc.  #922124
von RedRufus (DE), Last modified: 2020-09-16, 22:02  like dislike  Spam?  
deshalb denke ich, dass hier "application" angebracht wäre. Das muss kein Computer sein, auch mit Hilfe des Werkzeugs "Karteikasten" können Daten verarbeitet werden
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2020-09-16, 23:14  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922125
4;RedRufus, the definitions of Datenanwendung are in my first post on this thread. I think the use of this term is specific to Austrian German. It definitely does not refer to a computer app/program according to these definitions. I suspect it is being used as a synonym of "data processing" but can find no definite evidence of this.
Antwort: 
von alex-k (DE), 2020-09-17, 10:21  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922128
I think it is fair to say that this isn't Austrian German anybody would use in normal conversation but Austrian German Legalese.

"Als personenbezogene Daten gelten generell alle Informationen, die sich auf eine identifizierte oder identifizierbare natürliche Person (sogenannte "betroffene Person") beziehen. Beispiele: Name, Adresse, Geburtsdatum, E-Mail-Adresse, IP-Adresse, Kontonummer usw…"
https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/lexicon/D/Seite.991455.html

So "personenbezogene Daten" from the definition linked to earlier is more akin to personally identifiable information. That's why I would translate this as goal-oriented processing of personally identifiable data. Define once and then call it GOPPID.

"Es ist möglich, eine Datenanwendung "Personalverwaltung" zu führen, …" blablabla the example goes on to say you can run different software to achieve your goals. The point they're trying to make, I think, is that even if let's say there is a separate attendance record from the swipe card system at the factory gate and a separate salary payment IT system in accounting, the personally identifiable data being processed under the umbrella "personnel management" concerns the same group of people in both systems. So a breach in one system would be considered a breach of the whole process. Let's say the attendance record is stolen by an evil hacker. Even if all they got was employee numbers and dates and times, that's still personally identifiable information even though the hacker cannot match personnel numbers to actual names. In my opinion, that's the circle they're trying to square with this tedious, cumbersome language. But I'll stress this is my interpretation.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2020-09-17, 10:42  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922130
Thanks, alex-k. This is about Datenanwendung as it relates to the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR, in German: DSGVO). Personenbezogene Daten translates to English as "personal data". Because of the importance of the GDPR, most definitions of personenbezogene Daten/personal data are the same as the one in the GDPR:
"personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;"
„personenbezogene Daten“ alle Informationen, die sich auf eine identifizierte oder identifizierbare natürliche Person (im Folgenden „betroffene Person“) beziehen; als identifizierbar wird eine natürliche Person angesehen, die direkt oder indirekt, insbesondere mittels Zuordnung zu einer Kennung wie einem Namen, zu einer Kennnummer, zu Standortdaten, zu einer Online-Kennung oder zu einem oder mehreren besonderen Merkmalen, die Ausdruck der physischen, physiologischen, genetischen, psychischen, wirtschaftlichen, kulturellen oder sozialen Identität dieser natürlichen Person sind, identifiziert werden kann;

According to various Austrian legal texts I have found, "Datenanwendung" has something to do with the GDPR and is not a computer program/app. As I have mentioned above, I think this may be an Austrian (legalese) term for data processing, possibly having developed to cover that from an initial meaning genuinely referring entirely to the use of data, but I cannot find evidence of that. My next best assumption, and one I can find evidence for, is that it genuinely refers to "(personal) data use", even where "data processing" would make more sense to me (possibly the use of the data "Datenanwendung" refers to can be the processing of data).
I almost never get to translate texts that aren't written in legalese (whether German, Austrian or Swiss legalese) or its financial equivalent, so it's nice to be reminded that not everyone speaks like that :) Unfortunately, I think I need someone who does speak Austrian legalese to comment, as I suspect the meaning may differ from German German non-legalese and this is an area where the meaning of a word has diverged regionally (just like you wouldn't want to get most British English speakers to tell you what "suspenders" or "pavement" mean in a US text).
Antwort: 
von alex-k (DE), 2020-09-17, 11:50  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922132
I think you are looking for a verified term that does not (yet) exist in English. If you don't want to distinguish between personal or personally identifiable data, that's alright. I find the latter is more on point with the definition I quoted but I can see how a distinction between the two is less important. My definition was not referring to software but a process. My example was using two separate IT systems as a realistic example but the Datenanwendung "Personalverwaltung" could be done with a clipboard, a calculator, and elbow grease (and the hacker is just a pickpocket). It would still be a goal-oriented processing of [insert qualifier of choice here] data, or a Datenanwendung according to this government website definition. The definition has to be this long because they counterintuitively define a nonsensical term like that.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), Last modified: 2020-09-17, 12:07  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922134
4;Alex, I think we must be talking at cross purposes. I don't care at all about distinguishing between personal and personally identifiable data right now. The definitions I quoted you are from the EU's General Data Protection Regulation, not a personal opinion. What I'm trying to get to in this thread is the meaning/translation of Datenanwendung.

It's great that you're not talking about a computer program/app as the definition of Datenanwendung. The sentence I'm most interested in translating is: "Zu welchem Zweck werden die Datenanwendungen betrieben?"
I think, based on your sentence "It would still be a goal-oriented processing of [insert qualifier of choice here] data, or a Datenanwendung according to this government website definition" that you might be saying that you think "Datenanwendung" refers to "data processing" (Datenverarbeitung). Is this correct? Would you translate: "Zu welchem Zweck werden die Datenanwendungen betrieben?" as "For what purpose is the data processing being carried out?"?
Antwort: 
von alex-k (DE), 2020-09-17, 13:32  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922135
In principle, yes. However, since they attach personal data to the German-language definition, I don't think you can just skip that terminology in your translation. "Data processing" in general and "Datenanwendung" in the spirit of this legislation only have Venn overlap in meaning in that specific area. You can however also process data about cornfield yields or stars in the universe and they would not be covered by this legalese term. The distinction in German is easier to see because one could use a different word. That is why I suggest a bloated definition of the term that you can refer back to if the term pops up again. Since I'm not an Austrian privacy scholar I cannot do better than an opinion, which you are welcome to ignore.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2020-09-17, 13:37  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922136
Thanks, Alex-K. So you'd be happy with "personal data processing", given that my text is about the GDPR and the term used in that is "personal data"?
So, the sentence  "Zu welchem Zweck werden die Datenanwendungen betrieben?" would be "For what purpose is the personal data processing being carried out?" or "For what purpose is the personal data being processed?" (It's perfectly acceptable to translate German-language legalese into clear sentences in English where this is possible)
Antwort: 
von alex-k (DE), 2020-09-17, 14:41  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922137
"For what purpose is the personal data being processed?" sounds more pleasing - if that's possible given the subject matter. The goal-oriented aspect from the definition is implied in this question.
Antwort: 
von Windfall (GB), 2020-09-17, 14:42  like dislike  Spam?  
 #922138
Thanks, alex-k

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